Charles du Plessis - Sources?

Private User asks on 13/6/2018 at 11:53 PM

Where are the records for the parentage of Dr. Jean Prieur du Plessis, SV/PROG?

Private User replies:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/du-plessis/1the-french-origins-of-th... - search 1638

DU PLESSIS, Charles.
Born in 1600. Died in 1640.
NOTE: He was a medical doctor in Poitiers.
Parents and Siblings:
Son of Jean DU PLESSIS and Judith Anne DU PLESSIS DU MORNAY.
Marriages and Offspring:
In 1630 Charles married (wife’s name unknown); she was born in 1616 in the Poitou region of France.
Children:
Jean Prieur DU PLESSIS (born 1638 at Poitiers, married Madeleine MENANTEAU)

(NOTE: Jean-Prieur is the progenitor of the du Plessis family that settled in South Africa)

written by https://www.facebook.com/hendrik.duplessis2

I have sent him a message asking whether he has sources

More at http://www.genealogywise.com/group/duplessisduplessisderichelieu/fo...

This:
Nog bietjie bronne deur Judi Meyer-Marais + inligitng:

Volgens die Dictionnaire Historique en Gémealogique DES FAILLES DU POITOI van Beauchet-Filleau ( 1909) bl 351 word die Branche des CERTEAUX, seigneur des CERTEAUX nl. die de Grailly's behandel. Dit word daar gestel dat Joachim de Grailly in die jaar 1556 curator(voog) van die kinders van Francois du Plessis geword het. Die feit word in die Memoirs de Certeaux gelees en dat die name van die twee kinders met hulle ouderdomme ook daarin genoem word, nl. Jean (7 jaar ) en Guillaune (1 jaar)

Ander bronne

1. Dictionnaire de la Noblesse, par De la Chenaye-Desbois et Radier, Troisiemme, Tomme Quinsieme, a Paris. 1869. col.944 XI word die naam Francois du Plessis II genoem maar nie die mane van sy kinders nie.

2. In die Annaire de la Noblesse de France par bodel word die naam van Guillayme du PLessis I, die voorvader van Francois du PLessis II genoem. 1882 bls 771 en 772.

3.Prieur du Plessis. Die volgende inligting oor die Prieur-gelsagte is van die Society des Amis de la Biblioteque Nationale Office de Documentation, Parys, te kry.

O.D. 618 van 8.10.1956, vertaal uit Frans soos verkry deyr S.C.M. du Plessis.

The patronmique name of this family is Prieur. The surname of the ground of estate (fief) is DU PLESSIS. Since the patronymique name or the name of the family is not the same it excludes all kindship with the du Plessis of Richelieu. The families of Prieur occur a little all over France, it is a name failry spead.

The family in Poitiers, a departmet of the Vienne, used the surname du Plessis, like Jean Prieuer, a surgeon, born in Poitier in 1638 who afterwards emigrated to Holland for the sake of religion was styled SIEUR DU PLESSIS and not PRIEUR DU PLESSIS.

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2.

Jean Prieur du Plessis arriveer in die Kaap aan boord die "Oosterland" met sy vrou, Marie Menanteau in 1688. Hy werk as dokter. Vertrek terug na Europa aan boord die "St Jansland". Na die afsterwe van sy vrou keer hy terug na die Kaap.

Trou weer in Amsterdam op 29.8.1700 met Marie Buisset.

Voor sy koms na Suid Afrika, vlug hy uit Frankryk en gaan na die eiland St Thomas in die Karibbiese See en word lidmaat vand die Waalse Kerk in Nederland op 20.9.1687. Hy lê die eed van getrouheid af in die stad Middelburg om as vryburger na die Kaap te gaan.

Sterf in Stellenbosch.

Interessant is dat hy die mediese praktisyn is wat die lykskouing op Charles Marais (SV) gedoen het, en 'n paar geslagte later sou die twee se kleinkinders, Jan Marais en Elizabeth du Plessis met mekaar trou. Bron: Judi Marais, kleindogter van Jan Johannes Marais en Elizabeth Susanna du Plessis.

Bronne:

1. Emmerentia van Rensburg - NAAIRS Genealoog.

2. Geslagsregister van vroeë Kaapse families - Christoffel Coetzee de Villiers.

3. Afrikaanse Families - Cor Pama

4. Die du Plessis famileboek 1688 - 1988: N A Coetzee

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Belangrike gegewens:

PRIEUR du Plessis -
1. In die Dictionnaire de la Noblesse, par De la Chenaye-Desbois et Radier, Troisieme Edition, Tome Quinsiemme, a Paris. Chez Schlesinger frères Libraiere - editeure 1869. Colmun 994 nombre Xi word die naam François du Plessis II genoem, maar nie die van sy kinders nie.

2. In die Annuaire De La Noblesse de France par Borel word die naam van Guillaume ( uitgespreek (GUI-YOM) du Plessis I die voorvader van François du Plessis II genoem. 1882 bls 771 en 772.

3.PRIEUR DU PLESSIS. Die volgende inligting oor die PRIEUR -geslagte is van die Society des Amis de la Bibliotheque Nationale Office de Documentation, Paris verkry. O>D> 618 van 8.10.1956 - brief. Vertaal uit die Frans - 'n direkte vertaling in Engels soos verkry van SCM du Plessis:

The patronyminique name of this family is PRIEUR. The surname of the ground or estate (fief) is DU PLESSIS. Since the patronimique name or name of Richelieu. The Families of PRIEUR occur a little over France, it is a name that is fairly spread.

The family of this name in Poitiers, a department of the Vienne, used the surname du Plessis. Likwise Jean PRIEUR, a surgeon, born in Poitiers in 1638, who afterward emigrated to Holland for the sake of religion was styled "Sieur" du Plessis In Vienne the place from which JEAN PRIEUR DU PLESSIS comes is COUSAY-LES-BOIS.

Judi Marais- Meyer registers, Van die boek van Dr NA Coetzee - DIe familienaamboek van du Plessis. " afskrif verskyn in die boek.

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Dormay du Toit's research:

The Above Stamouers entry lists Judith *Ireland 1694 tydens die terugrit na die Kaap, as the daugther of Jean Prieur and Marie Buissett. But this must be an error because Jean married Marie in Amsterdam in 1700, after which they returned to the Cape. According to French Speakers at the Cape )M Boucher), in discussing Jean Prieuer's return to Europe From the Cape (p 345)

" The movements of the family after reaching the United Provinces are uncertain, but it is known that a daughter, Judith was born in Ireland - or possibly England - in 1694. Du Plessis may have joined the Irish settlement scheme for French Refugeees undertaken at this period, or perhaps had English family connections. The surname is not infrequent there: Francois du Plessis was the first chaplain to the Protestant Hospital in London which opened in 1718;Philippe du Plessis, like Jean Prieur a surgeon, lived in the Tower of Liberty of the English capital in 1702."

"Menanteaus, perhaps relatives of Jean Prieuer's wife, were still living in Amsterdam in 1699, while at Delft in May 6, 1691, the child Louis, son of Charles Marette and Judith du Plessis, was baptized. Charles, with his brother Louis, had come from Loans, near Deux, with Gideon Malherbe in 1687, abjuring Calvinism in order to escape. Could his wife have given the name to Jean Prieuer's daughter? This family connection is merely conjectural, but what is certain is that Jean Prieuer du Plessis was n Amsterdam by 1700 and that his wife had died by that date. His subsequent marriage to Marie Buisset in the Nieuwe Kerk of Amsterdam suggeststhat his wife's family had been long resident in the United Provinces."

It seems, therefore, that Judith du Plessis was the daughter of Jean Prieur du PLessis and Madeleine Menanteau.

Added by Judi Marais-Meyer.

Can this be considered proof that Judith Anne DU PLESSIS DU MORNAY was the stamvader's granny.

If so, then this is a most significant find.

I'm not seeing proof of Dr Jean Prieur du Plessis's connection to Charles :-(

I think that post establishes the mother of Judith van Donselaar only?

cf Madeleine Menanteau, SM/PROG

From the Profile: Information from Hendrik du Plessis.
Note especially: 'There is however, a gap of about 100 years in the Du Plessis history, a gap just before we get to Jean Prieur.'

Practiced as a medical doctor at Poitiers, fled with other Huguenots to Holland. Became a member of the "Waalse Kerk", Amsterdam, Nederland on 20.9.1687. Arrived with wife MADELENE MENANTEAU in 1688 on the ship Oosterlandt at Cape Town, South Africa (Cap de Bonne Esperance). Their first born son, Charl Prieur was born on the ship. In 1693 he returns to Holland in the ship Sirjanslandt. His wife died around 1694. He marries MARIA BUISSET of Sedan, Lorraine (born c 1676), in the "Domkerk", Amsterdam on 29.8.1700 and returns about 1703 back to Cape Town and settles in Drakenstein. He died in 1708in South Africa. He is of the family du Plessis de Richelieu from whom the Dukes de Richelieu came.

Historical. From Colin Pretorius:- The late Dr Nico Coetzee did extensive research on the Du Plessis family for his book "Die Du Plessis Familieboek". In the book an extensive history of the du Plessis family is given, not only covering the family in SA after the arrival of the stamvader, but also going into a huge amount of detail about their very early history - 12th - 16th century.There is however, a gap of about 100 years in the Du Plessis history, a gap just before we get to Jean Prieur.

Hereunder is a copy of an article on the early history of Jean Prieur Du PLESSIS provided by Sharon Marshall on ZA Roots.

The ancient capital of Poitiers, on its commanding hilltop occupies a special place in the history of western civilisation, for its name is associated with the battlefield, not far distant, where in the eighth century Charles Martel defeated the invading Moors. In the seventeenth century it was an active enter of Calvinism and its temple at les Quartre-Piquest outside the town was served by its two pastors. Among those who sailed from Goeree on Feb 3, 1688 aboard the Oosterland of the Zeeland chamber were the surgeon Jean Prieur du Plessis (Pleases), born in Poitiers about the year 1638, and his wife Madeleine Menanteau of the same town. Du Plessis had taken the oath of loyalty required of emigrants together with other male members of the Oosterland party on January 8, 1688 in Middleburg,having moved to the Zeeland capital from Amsterdam. A son Charles was born to the couple on the voyage and christened aboard the ship on April 18, 1688. Du Plessis is said to have lived at some period"op St Christoffel". There are a number of possibilities here, including the village of Saint-Christophe north of Poitiers . There is another alternative, the island of St Kitts (St Christopher) in the West Indies. This colony in the Leeward islands was divided into French and English quarters, and was a considerable haven for Calvinist refugees after 1660, especially from the French Atlantic seaboard and its hinterland. Huguenot merchants were numerous in ten west Indies and although worship in the French quarter of St Kitts was only permitted in private houses, a Dutch pastor preached in French for Huguenots in the English quarter. Among settlers in the French part of the island were Guillaume Du Plessis and Pierre Prieur. It has been suggested that Du Plessis was of noble origin and that a descendant refused to accept an offer made by the first Napoleon to restore him the family title and inheritance. It may be so, although the story has not been substantiated. On the other hand the fact that the minister's wife Anne de Berault and her brother Louis stood as godparents at the baptism of Jean-Louis Du Plessis, born at the Cape on Feb 13, 1691, might suggest a higher social status than the average. The names Prieur and Du Plessis probably represent a family alliance. Both appear in Protestant registers in Poitou, together with that of Menanteau. The marriage of a Jean Prieurto Jeanne Sanzeau is recorded in 1674 at Lusigna, a rural church SW of Poitiers.

The exact date of arrival of Jean Prieur du Plessis and Madeleine Menanteau in the United Provinces is uncertain, but they became members of the Walloon church in Amsterdam on Sep 28, 1687, with attestation from the church at Saint-Thomas. This may reinforce the argument in favour of a period of residence in the West Indies. Du Plessis became a citizen of Amsterdam on Sep 30, 1687. Three Menanteaus, Antoine, Marguerite and Marie, were members of the Walloon church in Amsterdam in August 1688 while in the previous month Deis Martineau Du Plessis, a schoolmaster from Fontenay, possibly Fontenay-le-Comte, had reached the city. He married there a few months later. In Amsterdam at an earlier date was a wine merchant, Jean Du Plessis, of Saint-Germain-en-Laye near Versailles, birthplace of LouisXIV. One Du Plessis from Poitiers made his way to Wolfenbuttle in Brunswick before the revocation: Joseph Du Plessis, a former Catholic priest. There was also a Louis Du Plessis, minister of the French church at Bremen, whose daughter Louise was baptised in Amsterdam in Sep 1686, and a Michel Du Plessis, reader of the church at Bergen-op-Zoom and father of a large family. The further history of Jean Prieur du Plessis, who was to return to Europe for some years, is recounted elsewhere in this study

Further, there are no sources for his mother - supposedly Anne Prieur

Hi all of you!

I just realize that the "Du Plessis" surname (the one in SA) is suppose to be "Prieur du Plessis" and not just "Du Plessis" Just like my mom's surname is Dirksen van Schalkwyk and not just "Van Schalkwyk".

The patronyminique name of this family is PRIEUR. The surname of the ground or estate (fief) is DU PLESSIS. Since the patronimique name or name of Richelieu. The Families of PRIEUR occur a little over France, it is a name that is fairly spread.

The family of this name in Poitiers, a department of the Vienne, used the surname du Plessis. Likwise Jean PRIEUR, a surgeon, born in Poitiers in 1638, who afterward emigrated to Holland for the sake of religion was styled "Sieur" du Plessis In Vienne the place from which JEAN PRIEUR DU PLESSIS comes is COUSAY-LES-BOIS.

In my book this means that the Du Plessis (SV/Prog) surname was Prieur from the place "du" (area) called Plessis (meaning "fenced by sticks" (latte in Afrikaans).

I know I'm being "moedswillig" now but maybe we are looking at the wrong history and we should rather trace the "Prieur" family line?

Kind regards
Wynand André "Prieur" du Plessis

Meaning of a "Patronymic" name

A surname or name derived from the name of its bearer's father or ancestor. In Western cultures, many surnames are patronymic in origin, as for example Irish names beginning with O' and English names ending with -son; in other cultures, such as Russian, a special patronymic name is used in addition to the surname.

Many surname in South Africa are also such surnames... Jansen van Rensburg, Pietersen, Dirksen etc!

Wynand André du Plessis, the DNA results of three d Plessis men thus far match. One of the men is from Canada and is not descended from the SA stamvader.

I think that the possibility exists that it's a matronymic - I think the Du Plessis surname was pretty well established as an independent surname by this stage (Take a look at the DuPlessis Genealogy project to see that line.)

But - as you say - we should look at all possibilities. It's going to be such a shame if there were never any sources for this link to those parents :-(

Cross posted. Sorry.

The french cardinal Richelieu was a du plessis. I think Dyonisia Placetis/Plessestis who was married to a Dymoke was probably a Denise du Plessis.

I think it's also well established that "all" the "Du Plessis" came originally from Normandy which probably means that they are decedents from the Vikings as this (Normandy) is the area that was allocated to Rollo, the first Duke of Normandy, and his followers with the intention that they will stop new invaders (mostly Vikings) from attacking France as Normandy was on the Northern bank of the Seine River - the pathway to Paris.

So yes! - Alexander Armenis it is very possible that the DNA can link these men together. Can you be certain that this Du Plessis from Canada is not connected to our Founding Father by other means? Maybe a brother, cousin or nephew of our Jean Prieur du Plessis?

It always amazes me how people can be so convinced of their angle that they are totally closed off to anything else.

If we are totally frank we actually know very little about Jean Preur du Plessis - the father of all the Du Plessis in South Africa!

By the way, if anyone can help me find the link between the du Plessis and the le Hérissé/ Héricy. de Héricy/ Hershey family, it would be much appreciated.

We also know that until a few of years ago people from places like Norway gave their children a surname linked to the fathers name. Lars Eirikson would name his first son after his dad with his name as surname. So his son would be Eirik Larsen and his daughter will get the surname Larsdatter.

Looking back into the Afrikaner's history we can see that the basic principle was often followed with names like Jansen van Vuuren and the like!

I also know that my Van Schalkwyk founding father referred to himself with his signature as Theunis Dirk:zn van Schalkwijk. The Dirk:zn or Dircksen was a refference to his father Dirck. That way he told everybody that his name was Theunis and that he was the son of Dirck and that he was from (van) Schalkwijk - a town in Utrecht, Nederland.

Our founding father was not that bothered at all how the Du Plessis surname was spelled. He himself signed his name as "duplesi" quite a bit different than the excepted spelling of today!... I would assume? that as a doctor he would know how to spell his own surname!

What is the info on the Y-DNA, Alex? If it's only RM269 then that's half of Europe and a good proportion of our European SVs. I take it that it's more specific than that?

I've tried some Prieur searches, Wynand. There was a modern writer Jean Prieur -but I can't track genealogy for him.
From whichever side, it's worth researching - because he will have a link - but there isn't a lot available quickly on the internet - even in French.

This is Denise

Dionisia du Plessis

She is Charles du Plessis' second cousin 9 times removed :-) but that doesn't help us find a link between Jean Prieur and Charles :-/

Sharon, the str-12 test is a 12/12 match. Normally this would not be something to get excited about without a deep clad test (snp) but in this case we have three men with the same last name that share the same haplotype.

Alex - my father (who's an mtDNA descendant of Marie Buisset) shares that haplogroup. So does an inordinate proportion of all of our stamvaders and a huge percentage of all Western men - eg Mike Stangel, Geni's GM. The distance in years that only 12 matches represents is way further back than we need here - I think? I know I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but I don't think RM269 at a 12 match is sufficient proof.
I do agree that it's pretty strong proof, though - if there are no dissenting testers.

Who are the three men? We need to put Jean Prieur on the Y SV project page and plot their connections. Can you do it? Shall I?

It would be a worthwhile conversation to decide whether 'triangulated' validation on the Y chromosome is the same as for mtDNA, given the greater variation in the latter. I don't know the answer - just very interesting.

But perhaps just trying to distract myself from the fact that if somebody had found proof of Jean Prieur's connection to any parents at all, it would be out there. :-(

I think thew real culprit in our failed attempts to find anything on Jean Prieur du Plessis is none other than his own family - Cardinal Richelieu - it was he that made it his mission to destroy all references and links of the Huguenots.

Under his watch all records were destroyed and even the Castles and other property of Huguenots demolished or disowned!

It seems inevitable that we'll have to cut this link :-(

Sharon, I have been a proponent for SNP testing as many M269 candidates as possible and I have expressly targeted the du Plessis men but unfortunately nobody is willing to go further than M269.

The M269 12-marker haplotype varies significantly and covers hundred of subclades within the mega R1b (western) stream. We do not have enough to conclude anything just yet, however, having a Canadian du Plessis match that is descended directly from continental Europe improves the chances that we are not dealing with a last name Prieur.

This was in answer to some comments in this discussion that alluded to the SA stamvader having originally been born into the Prieur family who were connected to the du Plessis estate somehow. This common du Plessis haplotype 12/12 match with a GD = 0 does not support the Prieur 'original' surname theory.

Last call for Sources here. ..

Can somebody explain to me the meaning of this paragraph:

The family of this name in Poitiers, a department of the Vienne, used the surname du Plessis. Likwise Jean PRIEUR, a surgeon, born in Poitiers in 1638, who afterward emigrated to Holland for the sake of religion was styled "Sieur" du Plessis In Vienne the place from which JEAN PRIEUR DU PLESSIS comes is COUSAY-LES-BOIS.

Please??????