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William Terrell - The Confusion Continues

Started by Debbie Gambrell on Saturday, June 11, 2022
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In trying to resolve the issue of the Martha Cox married to William (Ricmond) Terrell, I came across this on Wikipedia, which states:

Richmond Terrell
Richmond Terrell was born in Reading, England in 1624. After his father and grandfather, he was among the third generation of descendants to use the current spelling of the surname. He emigrated to the United States in 1656 and settled in New Kent County, Virginia. His brother William Terrell (born 1629) appears to have arrived in America sometime between 1658 and 1665. It is not known whether his brother stayed in the U.S. or returned to London. Richmond had several children including a son also named William. It has been speculated that this William is the same William Terrell that later married Susannah Waters, but due to a lack of documentary evidence, this has not been proven to the satisfaction of many historians.[1][3]

William Terrell who married Susannah Waters
This William Terrell was born around 1659 and died around 1743.[1] He married Susannah Waters and is a direct ancestor to several notable Terrells in the United States as well as other Terrell descendants including Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama.[3] Among historians, there is a lack of consensus regarding which of the early Terrells in America he is directly descended. One theory is that he is the son of the immigrant ancestor Richmond Terrell, but he may also be descended from Richmond's brother William. Gary Boyd Roberts in his authoritative volume, Ancestors of American Presidents, covers only nine generations of Carter's ancestry (going back to Joel Terrell, William's son) and ten generations for Obama (going back to Hannah Lewis, William's granddaughter), so the issue is not addressed in their respective ahnentafel charts.[3] In Reitwiesner's ancestry chart of Obama, despite covering sixteen generations, it does not list any ancestors for William Terrell.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrell_(surname)#William_Terrell_who...

I had thought Richard Terrell was the father of William Terrell who married Susannah Waters (one publications shows her maiden name as Walters rather than Waters). Notice it also doesn't refer to that William as William Richmond Terrell as listed here on Geni.

In any case, it is saying that William who married Susannah is NOT a proven son of the parents attached to him here on Geni.

No. It just says may be him or may be his brother.
I see no confusion other than the fact that it is a popular profile and in desperate need of locks.

William Terrell MP
Gender: Male
Birth: 1656
New Kent County, Virginia, British Colonial America
Death: April 02, 1744 (87-88)
Anna River, Hanover County, Virginia, British Colonial America
Immediate Family:
Son of Richmond Terrell and Elizabeth Terrell (Waters)
Husband of Susannah Terrell (Waters) and Patsy Terrell (Winston)
Father of Anne Elizabeth Lewis (Terrell); Simon Terrell; Richmond Terrell, III; David Terrell, Sr.; Mary Ann Mills (Terrell); Robert Terrell; Alice Winston Burnley (Terrell); William Richmond Terrell, Jr.; Timothy Terrell; Henry Terrell; James Nimrod Terrell; John Terrell, of Pamunkey Neck; Elizabeth Matthews (Terrell); Susannah Wingfield (Terrell); Frances Higdon (Terrell); Aaron Terrell; Joel Terrell, Sr. and Elizabeth Chiles (Terrell) « less
Brother of Richmond Terrell, II; Timothy Terrell; Robert Terrell and Henry Terrell

He picked up on wife and a child but somehow Susannah has gained many children.
I have sent a message to the managers to please help clean up the profile.

He picked up one wife
forgive the typos :)

I do not know who Patsy Terrell is but Susannah Terrell is confirmed for me on the X with others

I dsiagree, it plainly states:

" It has been speculated that this William is the same William Terrell that later married Susannah Waters, but due to a lack of documentary evidence, this has not been proven to the satisfaction of many historians.[1][3]"

which doesn't indicate, as you posted, "...It just says may be him or may be his brother." but is saying that the William who married Susannah Waters isn't accepted by many historians as a child of that family.

Yes, it's unlikely Susannah had that many children. You referred to Hicks vs. Hix, but that's variations of the same name whereas Walters and Waters can be entirely different. So, in my own tree I've just changed her as Susannah (Walters or Waters?) Terrell.

I came to all this today because a DNA match on Ancestry has them in his tree but when I began trying to fit the connections, I kept coming up on conflicting info. So I'm not even going to try to connect the DNA match to the line.

Let’s work on cleaning up the children & extra wife first. Can any bad merges be identified on the revisions tab?

Debbie, she’s “always” been Susannah Waters. The link on the other thread didn’t work - it wanted me to sign into ancestry.uk. Which is an immediate red flag for me because we don’t know her English ancestry (although many have tried). Can you try “sharing” so we can examine?

"In trying to resolve the issue of the Martha Cox married to William (Richmond) Terrell,"...-- Debbie Gambrell , can you tag those two individuals? I do nt know who they are either but you say they led you here. That might help

Erica Howton I only saw one recent merge https://www.geni.com/merge/view?revision_id=81999112730 so I wonder if it was a smart Copy or Gedcom or something?
I give up trying to figure it out.

The About will need clean up

Per the Wikitree profile for https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Terrell-45 husband of Susannah Waters:

Sources
↑ “The Minor Family of Virginia,” p. 104.
↑ Family Sketch by John Dabney Terrell
↑ Vestry Book. St. Pauls Parish, p. 18.
↑ Vestry Book St. Pauls parish, p. 120.
↑ Terrell Genealogy by Emma Dicken The Naylor Company Publishers pp 56-65
↑ Geni.com William Terrell Geni Profile
↑ http://www.terrellsociety.com/genealogy/documents/ NewIndex_S.pdf Terrell Genealogy by Emma Dickens ]
↑ Findagrave Memorial # 95753214
http://www.terrellsociety.com/genealogy/index.php
Find A Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com : accessed 10 March 2018), memorial page for William Terrell (20 Sep 1659–2 Apr 1743), Find A Grave Memorial no. 95753214, ; Maintained by Joyce Corbin (Register) (contributor 47911532) Unknown.

I can't open the Terrell Society page-- just a look up main screen and no log in button

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/95753214/william-terrell
Find A Grave Memorial no. 95753214

"William Terrill apparently had three wives. Of the first one very little is known.) Susannah Waters was his second wife. Patsy Winston was his third wife, taken late in life, and it is not certain how many, if any, of his children are also hers. Family tradition has William married to Susannah Waters. She is identified in a power of attorney to her son, Henry, relinquishing dower, when she and William deeded land on Polecat Swamp, in March 1725, to their son David." The family is thus linked to land in St. Margaret's Parish, King William County.[6][7][8]

WikiTree anit-collaborators have issued reprimands: "William Terrill is often and easily confused with his father Richmond Terrill (no William), because their names were so similar and because both men married women with the birth name of Waters."

Dickens says "The following list of the children of William and Susannah Terrell has been generally accepted as correct. (all born between 1690-1710 in New Kent, VA):

1 William Terrell, Jr. d. about 1744 in Caroline Co. VA
2 Joel Terrell, Sr., d. 1758 in Hanover Co., VA
3 Terrell-39 Anne Terrell m. David Lewis
4 David Terrell d 1759 in Caroline Co., VA
5 Henry Terrell d. 1760 in Caroline Co., VA
6Timothy Terrell d 1763 in Orange Co., NC
7 James Terrell d. about 1773 in Caroline Co., VA
8 John Terrell d. about 1785 in Franklin Co., NC

FAG has but 3 attached:

Children

Joel Terrell
1692–1758

Ann Elizabeth Terrell Lewis
1695–1734

David Terrell
1695–1759

Looking...

https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/433909:48642?tid=...

https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/90021221:61266?ti...

Here: https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/110683:49380?tid=...

Wm and Susannah. Issue:
William
Joel
Mary
Anne
David
Henry
Timothy
James
John
and their spouses.
Marry married twice as did John

https://media.geni.com/p14/41/d6/30/ce/534448611b798252/flhg_tidewa...

http://www.terrellsociety.com/genealogy/documents/L013_Dicken_withN...

This is the messy Terrell book that questions Susannah but we already have unknown as parents for her.
The book only mentions her about 17 times and does not give a list of children but lists them in chapters

Do we want to add a third wife for him?

Here are the children NOT shown on the list on the Chapter 5 page 272 of the Tidewater Virginia Families screenshotted here https://media.geni.com/p14/41/d6/30/ce/534448611b798252/flhg_tidewa...

Children likely needing moved/removed/sourced:
Ann Winston Burnley
Simon Terrell

Richmond Terrell, III is not on that list

I merged a duplicate for James and now his profile is a mess: James Nimrod Terrell

Duplicate children with varying dates so not easily merged
Ugh

I added first wife.

Robert Terrell is seen as son of Timothy Terrell and Elizabeth Foster at https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Terrill-1444

No Aaron for Susannah on the list.
Aaron Terrell

No Frances Higdon
and no Susannah Wingfield

Anyway-- just the 9 from the Tidewater book is all I can find.
I am not disconnecting anyone.
but they need moved. I am happy to help move them if someone has a list of children for William and other wives?

You’re moving very fast and I don’t see evidence for the other wives at the the Terrell Society book.

http://www.terrellsociety.com/genealogy/documents/L013_Dicken_withN...

Sorry, Erica.
I have stepped away from them but will help if I can.
I'm glad you were able to access the Terrell site!

Oh-- that's the book I shared that I think Debbie was referring to...

I would join the Terrell site if I could figure out how to get into the page

http://www.terrellsociety.com/genealogy/documents/

www.geni.com/media/proxy?media_id=6000000185473027235&size=large

—-

When I put in just terrellsociety.com I get http://terrellsociety.com/genealogy/index.php

I still can't see anything but the search page lol but yes, happy you are able to see it.
No worries-- I will try again soon

http://www.terrellsociety.com/genealogy/documents/L013_Dicken_withN... I’m just using the document, page 59 -63.

I’m disconnecting 1st & 3rd wife & all the extra children, and locking it down.

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