Antipater (son of Costobarus & Salome) - Was this son of Salome's father Costobarus or Joseph?

Started by Sharon Doubell on Saturday, April 21, 2012
Problem with this page?

Participants:

Profiles Mentioned:

Related Projects:

Showing all 11 posts

Wagner, Sir Anthony Richard; ‘Pedigree and Progress: Essays in the Genealogical Interpretation of History’
puts this Antipater as the son of Salome and Joseph.

Tal Ilan, in the Jewish Women's Archives http://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/salome
puts him as the son of Salome and Costobarus

For the moment Tal Illan's article seems very well researched, and potentially more up to date than Wagner, who is occasionally wrong in this area, so I've gone with Costobarus

Private as you added the original profile, perhaps you have more for us here?

Wagner also suggests that the [Joseph Josephus ., Jr.] who married Olympias (daughter of Herod & Malthace) [Olympias ., the Herodian] was another son of Uncle Joseph [Josephus of Judea (uncle of Herod the Great)] & Salome - rather than the son of Herod & Salome's, full brother, Joseph [Josephus ., Sr.]

But again, I can't find corroborating sources. If Joseph Jr is just described as 'Herod's nephew,' the ambiguity is that he is that whether he's the child of Herod's sister, Salome; or of his brother, Joseph.

Richardson (Herod: King of the Jews, Friend of the Romans) suggests Salome only had children by Costobar:
• Alexander
• Herod
• Berenice (who first married Aristobulus, then Theudion, Doris's brother)
• Antipater (who married Cypros daughter of Herod and Marriame the Hasmonean)
• unnamed daughter (who married the son of Alexas, Salome's third husband)

The husband of Olympos is given as the son of Herod's brother Joseph

However, Richardson is of course a secondhand source.

Eisenman's 'The New Testament Code'(2006) agrees with Tal Ilan & Richardson, & places Antipater as the son of Costobarus & Salome.

Private User says here: https://www.geni.com/discussions/297900?msg=1764154

This Josephus (Josephus ., Jr.) could be the one mentioned in Flavius Josephus' Jewish War in Book 2, Chapter 5:

CHAPTER 5.

Varus Composes The Tumults In Judea And Crucifies About Two
Thousand Of The Seditious.

2. Thence he marched on to Jerusalem, and as soon as he was but
seen by the Jews, he made their camps disperse themselves; they
also went away, and fled up and down the country. But the
citizens received him, and cleared themselves of having any hand
in this revolt, and said that they had raised no commotions, but
had only been forced to admit the multitude, because of the
festival, and that they were rather besieged together with the
Romans, than assisted those that had revolted. There had before
this met him __Joseph, the first cousin of Archelaus__, and Gratus,
together with Rufus, who led those of Sebaste, as well as the
king's army: there also met him those of the Roman legion, armed
after their accustomed manner; for as to Sabinus, he durst not
come into Varus's sight, but was gone out of the city before
this, to the sea-side. But Varus sent a part of his army into the
country, against those that had been the authors of this
commotion, and as they caught great numbers of them, those that
appeared to have been the least concerned in these tumults he put
into custody, but such as were the most guilty he crucified;
these were in number about two thousand.

(In the edition by William Whiston, downloaded from https://www.josephus.org/works.htm)

Kind regards,

Matthias Wallnöfer

Matthias clarifies further:

As far as I have understood this "Archelaus" should relate to Herod Archelaus (Herod Archelaus ., Ethnarch of Samaria Judaea and Edom) , not Archelaus I., king of Macedonia.(Archelaus I, king of Macedonia)

A few paragraphs earlier, in Chapter 3 we find:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CHAPTER 3.

The Jews Fight A Great Battle With Sabinus's Soldiers, And A
Great Destruction Is Made At Jerusalem.

1. Now before Caesar had determined any thing about these
affairs, _Malthace_, Are[c]helaus's mother, fell sick and died.
Letters also were brought out of Syria from Varus, about a revolt
of the Jews. This was foreseen by Varus, who accordingly, after
Archelaus was sailed, went up to Jerusalem to restrain the
promoters of the sedition, since it was manifest that the nation
would not he at rest; so he left one of those legions which he
brought with him out of Syria in the city, and went himself to
Antioch. But Sabinus came, after he was gone, and gave them an
occasion of making innovations; for he compelled the keepers of
the citadels to deliver them up to him, and made a bitter search

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I assume that this Malthace (Malthace, of Samaria, King Herod 6th wife), king Herod the Great's (Herod the Great, de-facto King of Judea) wife, was Herod Archelaus and Herod Antipas's (Herod Phillip Antipas ., Tetrarch of Galilee and Perea) mother.

Well, brother-in-law seems like a reasonable approximation perhaps?

www.geni.com/media/proxy?media_id=6000000217751089823&size=large


or it might be referring to Julius Archelaus his 1st cousin:

www.geni.com/media/proxy?media_id=6000000217751036839&size=large

Matthias replies:

Hi Sharon,
no, I have thought it differently:

  • Herod Archelaus is the son by Herod the Great and Malthace.
  • Josephus, Sr. is brother of Herod the Great.
  • Josephus, Jr. is son of Josephus, Sr.

So definitely a cousin of the first level.

[Wagner claimed that Josephus, Jr. would be the son of Herod the Great's sister Salome and Herod the Great's uncle Joseph, but also then it would be a cousin of the first level by Salome].


[Wagner claimed that Josephus, Jr. would be the son of Herod the Great's sister Salome and Josephus of Judea (uncle of Herod the Great) but also then it would be a cousin of the first level by Salome].

I see what you're saying, Matthias. Yes I agree with you. Thankyou for taking the time to explain. Do you want to add that to Source to the profile? I'll send you management.

Showing all 11 posts

Create a free account or login to participate in this discussion