Saint Nikòlaos de Bari, Bishop de Myra - Santa Claus=Sinterklaas=St. Nikolaos

David - check dating for the profile & location; check priesthood marriage rules for the branch of Christianity. Predates Roman Catholicism doesn't it?

Thanks David!

I think a good strategy might be to make a new profile for Santa Claus himself, with a curator note that he is a European development of St. Nicholas. That way we could leave the profile for the original St. Nicholas in its historic purity. If we do this, we might move the "wives" and nicknames from Nicholas to Santa Claus.

My one concern is that I might be missing some part of this that would be important to our European cousins.

Discussion?

In Norway he is called Julenissen, but the origin is not the same as Santa Claus. He was a mythical creature gnome living in the barn, and in Christmas time (called Jul=Jol in Norwegian) when everyone drank to "Jol" the gnome called "nisse" also was paid respect.

In Swedish this creature is called "Tomte": The tomte was in ancient times believed to be the "soul" of the first inhabitor of the farm; he who cleared the tomt (house lot). He had his dwellings in the burial mounds on the farm, hence the now somewhat archaic Swedish names tomtenisse and tomtekarl, the Swedish and Norwegian tomtegubbe and tomtebonde ("tomte farmer"), the Norwegian haugkall ("mound man"), and the Finnish tonttu-ukko (lit. "house lot man"). Thus, the tradition of giving porridge to the tomte at Christmas is a remainder of ancestral worship.

In my family we still put oatmeal out for the tomte on Christmas Eve. Even after more than 100 years in America!

You may have a point there Erica, he was bishop before the christianity was transformed in roman tradition. Some information about this is found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerical_celibacy

Besides that is there any evidence at all that this bishop was ever married?

I dislike having known fictional characters connected to a real familytree, but would like to have fictional wives and nicknames that doesn't have anything to do with the bishop to a new profile.

David - I would like to see "Santa Claus" in the nickname field so I can find "the real" Klaus in the Geni tree. It is wrong to my learning about history to make it difficult for an every day person.

The Bishop of Myra probably was married in the Byzantine church. It should be easy enough to have a general idea even if this specific biographical detail is lost in time.

I agree with that Erica, Santa Claus is short for Saint Nikolaos.
Well married or not, but without documentation of a wife or children, he should be treated as unmarried. It was not uncommon even in the early church that priests, bishops and church leaders where unmarried, but some of them was as you said married.

But all the other nicknames not connect with his name should be moved.
Most of these belongs to other traditions mixed with this story..

Maybe list out those nicknames & we can review?

I don't know what was usual practice for priests in the church in Asia Minor. I suspect that not only celibacy was "not" required but an un married priest would have been odd. I think we need more research on the question.

It doesn't really matter whether priests at this time in Asia Minor could marry or not. The only real point is that St. Nicholas of Myra was not married to these particular wives ;)

In this case, historians are uncertain about what rules would have applied. There has been a very long controversy about whether the rules required bishops to be unmarried, or whether special rules applied if they were already married when they became bishops.

What I would do is put a link to a SEPARATE Santa Claus profile in the About Me of St. Nikolas. I would NOT put the nickname Santa Claus for St. Nikolas as he was a real person and not thought of as connected to Santa Claus by the Europeans in all instances.

So I agree with David Widerberg Howden with the caveat that a number of cultures do equate St. Nikolas with Santa Claus. Saint Nick is even a nickname for Santa Claus in the U.S. as least it was for my community.

That sounds good ;) About the names of "Santa Claus" can be read here: *http://wiki.name.com/en/The_Names_of_Santa_Claus
*http://www.happywink.org/christmas-day/multiculturism-santas.html

Am I understanding correctly? Use the existing St. Nicholas profile, but create a section in the About Me for Santa Claus?

Jolly ol St. Nicholas, lean your ear this way . . .

St nicholas has always been the start of what Santa Claus was culterally based on

As far as ive been told santa claus - saint a ni cklaus

Do not put abt me in st nick, make theory or profile and put storys of santa on santa, with ref abt st nick page, on st nick put st nick info for wich santa is based from

Does that make sense?

St nick - http://www.biography.com/people/st-nicholas-204635

Santa claus - http://www.santasuitexpress.com/santa-claus-history.html

As I understood just create a unconnected profile named Santa Claus, and link this one together in the "About me" section with just a link (Maby in curator text?) Make both Masterprofiles, the historical should have a Curatortext like this one:

"This is the profile of the historical St Nikolas, this profile should not be mixed with the fictional Santa Claus (Link)"

And the fictional:

"This is the profile of the fictional Santa Claus etc. this profile should not be mixed with the historical St. Nikolaos (link) who was a bishop in Myra."

The fictional could then be the master profile of all the different Santa stories.....

Or the profile has to be cleaned of fictional facts and just mention shortly in the about me section that the stories of St. Nikolaos is the origin of the Sinterklaas tradition of Holland, who is one of the many stories mixed together as our modern Santa Claus (link to further reading on wikipedia etc..) But the historical stories and facts about the saint should be the main story..

The biographies that Melissa King links to looks good ;)

No, Justin Durand. I was saying create a SEPARATE profile for Santa Claus but reference that profile in the About Me of St. Nikolas.

Indicate that St. Nikolas was the model for the concept of Santa Claus. Indicated on the Santa Claus profile that St. Nick is a nickname for Santa Claus.

Yes, what David Widerberg Howden said :)

Whew! That's what I suggested far above. I was reading the subsequent discussion as being argument rather than agreement. Sorry about that.

Then connect the existing wives to the new Santa Claus profile?

I think that's a nice solution. Let's give the discussion a few more days though. It's possible that some people are interested but gone or busy right now.

As an aside - why do we need a Santa Claus profile at all? There isn't one currently?

I think there used to be but it got deleted as a fake.

If anyone is thinking of making that argument this time around, don't do it. I have primary evidence for his existence. I have letters from him.

Delete his spouses and nicknames and make any references to the Santa Claus "connections" to sites outside Geni

Why do we need a Santa Claus profile?

Why do we need Adam and Eve?

Why do we need Norse gods?

I would personally argue that there are thousands of profiles on Geni that are just as mythical as Santa Claus.

I like the approach of pointing people from Santa Claus to the St. Nikolas profile because we have the opportunity to teach people something about how myths come into being. The only difference with Santa Claus is that the myth is much more recent than say Adam and Eve or the Norse gods :)