Please make Master Profile

If there are duplicates created long before your profile and with more managers it would not be fair fro them to MP your copy before a merge.

Hi Bjørn, I saw no profiles of this person before I created it. I'm simply wanting to preserve the information.
Judith

Okay, I emailed Judith and the other manager (only one manager, small private tree) to see if we can merge the two trees and have at least Lewis Mumford be public and an MP. There are no dates on the profiles of the other tree.

Big thanks to Hatte Anne Blejer for facilitating the transition to Master Profile status for Lewis Charles Mumford and for Mona for her gracious co-operation.

As you can see on the profile and the revisions, making Judith's new profile MP before the merge would not be fair. We had another manager who had added the profile 5 years before her, and by doing the merge before MP'ing it we got that manager listed both as Added By and primary manager.

Fair enough?

Bjorn, yes, It is fair to wait for the merger. I didn't see the Lewis Mumford profile before entering my version (it must have been private), but the person who posted it has given permission, and we are now in touch thanks to Hatte, so I suppose that all's well that ends well.

Sorry about that, - I just reacted on your statement "I'd like him to be on top in case of merges.", which made me suspect that you knew it was a duplicate. Hatte solved it correctly by making the merge first.

No worries, Bj0rn!

Dato Godam

Dear curators

I am not sure what are the steps for locking a profile but this one sure meets the criteria by now. There is even a book dedicated for him and probably, the second volume will be published soon for the public. I cannot wait for that one too! It is really great to know who we are related to in the Bruneian society.

Thanks

Ahmad

Would you be kind enough to clean up the name fields ?

Specifically -

Remove the @ sign & the ' Mark

They do funky things to the database & I'm reluctant to change names best set by managers ; my American use of fields in Geni may not be the most useful, when adjusted by other localities.

Otherwise it looks good, and it will be helpful for everyone to have an MP designation.

Done. Thanks Erica!

Only Master Profiles can be locked, and in my opinion profiles with just a name like this does not qualify to become a Master Profile

Hi Ahmad

For http://www.geni.com/profile/edit_relationships/6000000006597521561

Please either

- remove incorrect parent relationships (from the relationships tab, profile view) OR
- in tree view, use the yellow conflict triangle tool to resolve tree conflicts & select the correct parent pair

Please let us know success or if you need more assistance on it. The dates have been field locked

I believe there are no surnames in Iceland either. :)

Ahmad take a look here - profile view, edit basics tab for Dato Godam.

I see a message:

Birth Order
This person has multiple sets of parents. Click the conflict icon ( ) in the tree to resolve the duplicates.

When i go to edit relationships, I see 3 sets of parents, perhaps there are duplicates that need to be merged:

Parents:
Raja Harun, ruler of Pagaruyung (deceased) & Daughter of Jan van Groenewegen (deceased)
Parents:
dato bendahara bongsu arun ibni sultan badarun syah raja alam 28 (deceased) & Unknown
Parents:
Bendahara Harun (deceased) & Daughter of Jan van Groenewegen (deceased)

================

So the easiest next step is to go to tree view, and use the yellow conflict tool to resolve the tree conflict.

Erica, as per my message last night, please bear with me on the tree conflicts. at the moment I have no access to such facts, due to my travelling

Erica Howton dear.
I am no expert on that issue mentioned, but I believe those guys, Raja Harun [Raja Harun bin Arif Barunsyah], Dato Bendahara Bongsu Arun [Unknown Profile] and Bendahara Harun [Unknown Profile] were the same and one person. Note the particular name Harun, Arun., most probably the malay way of calling the arabic names of Harun (christians says Aaron).

Cheers,
aznijar.

Thank you for your support Encik Aznijar. I am no expert either, all was based on the book Dato Godam, so I would be careful to merge them at this stage as other managers of the profile have remained silent.

My pleasure sir! Take care.

Cheers,
aznijar.

Well, as you can see the manager of this profile
Raja Harun bin Arif Barunsyah is George Homs, who is a curator. Did you aproach him about the issue? You dont always know profiles are mentioned in a discussion. Better is to e-mail to the managers or the curator. Just saying.. :-)

Thanks for pinging me, Jennie. Indeed, my 'brief' work around these profiles stems from the place the pivotal profile of Jan van Groenewegen, "Orang Kaya Hulubalang Raja" takes in this genealogy (pivotal, because he's a bridge between Europe and south-east Asia. One of my blockages is my own lack of understanding of Malay. Online translation tools are totally inadequate. Plus, much research is only available in PDF formats or digitized books. Still, I have to agree that may profiles seem duplicates.
In order to understand better the historical context and the relationships between the various sultanates and 'kingdoms' around the Straits, more projects similar to this one could be helpful... http://www.geni.com/projects/Sultans-of-Aceh/15360. If only to settle on appropriate naming conventions.
About that last point, I would very strongly recommend to sanitize the profiles: to take out any 'titles' from the name fields and to use these only in the suffix or display name fields. It would be most helpful if more Malay-speakers would take over (Jennie and I are spending most of the time on the Dutch side of this historical connection - including on the VOC records in Jakarta). (I'm getting requests to be added to profile management, and I'm very happy to oblige :-) )

Hello all!

Excellent news.
Well, there are many Malay natives here, Brother Ahmad and me included. It would be appropriate if those Malay natives were to be inducted as curators.

With regards to titles, yes, it is rater messy. People this side of the earth are too concerned with those and are afraid to offend others if the titles were to be dropped. We are very feudalistic in some sense.

All the best to all.

Cheers,
aznijar, no titles, :)

Hi Aznijar

One way to cope with titles is by use of the "display name" field.

So the actual (legal) name would go in the name fields, but display is used as a "best known as" or "professional" representation.

Display name would or could include prefix and suffix.

This is how we do it for English & American names and it works pretty well.

My experience tells me that there can be several profiles of the same individual occurring in here. What can be most frustrating is when these duplicates are entered into and managed by the same member. If somehow the system can alert the member of the existence of a particular profile that he is attempting to enhance and lead him to merely continue instead of recreating then perhaps many of merge issues arising can be automatically avoided.

I suppose this is what is meant by or the effect of having a Master Profile. In fact it might even be a good idea to designate the very first profile entry of any individual by anyone as the Master or Main Profile of that individual and thence every attempt at repeating an entry would automatically lead the member to an existing profile.

My frustration over these issues has led me to inquire several times in the past as to how one becomes a Curator on the assumption that a Curator can assist or has the authority to overcome or resolve these problems.

Also as it happens NOW the new privacy policies in itself has made it a great deal more difficult for anyone to resolve simple merge issues. You cannot do anything because the first name becomes 'private' and you lose track.

We do need a Curator in the Malay/Indonesian world as there are many who are eager to record 'connections' giving rise to oft repeated entries from different parts of the Malay realm. We do need help here. I can nominate a few likely candidates in view of their very deep involvement in posting profiles into Geni.

Hi Mohammed

There is currently a moratorium on new curators, but there is a nomination form here

http://wiki.geni.com/index.php/Curators#How_to_become_a_Curator

I have a suggestion.

Why not use the project tool
http://help.geni.com/forums/367947-Projects

To gather "key" profiles?

Then you can

- invite collaborators to work on the genealogy
- define a project mission and include links to crucial resources
- use the discussion tool within the project to work out important agreements, such as naming conventions
- invite existing curators to assist with "marking" as Master Profiles profiles validated by the local community, to clarify for merges and avoid duplication

Another very nice thing about a targeted project is it can be "related" to others and create quite the history lesson.

The lack of surnames earlier mentioned by Ahmad is not unique to Brunei. It is a common problem in Western Asia and the Muslim world particularly in Malaysia, Indonesia. Brunei and Singapore. The Phillipinos also part of the Malay world have long overcome this problem by designating the name of an ancestor as the surname because of their longer exposure to Western practices.

Nonetheless many families do have surnames now or can insert a notional surname by repeating that name in all connected profiles You might want to look at the profile of RALPH KIRKPATRICK WINSLOE PHILLIPS and his descendants and see how this problem of lack of surname is being resolved slowly in Sarawak.

That Erica is an excellent idea, thank you. I hope Ahmad, Aznijar, Idris Alimuda, Tunku Dato Iskandar, Hasrul and a few others would take this up and agree to cross collaborations to begin with.

Regards

Kamal

Mohammed - I've learned that focused & targeted projects with a clear objective work well. I would just get started and invite collaborators!

Here are projects about ... Working with projects :)

http://www.geni.com/projects/Working-with-Projects/12487
http://www.geni.com/projects/Working-with-projects-Step-by-Step/18185

well, i have been in a lot of contact with mr george homs lately, for me he did a great job especially on the dutch side, that really meant a lot. as for mr mohamad kamal, he has been around in geni.com for as long as i can recall :)

That is correct Ahmad and my interest had always been to build and document my own family tree and then see how we relate to the scheme of things without interfering into or with what others are doing.

I do have to take a greater interest now particularly because you and most of those very active from our part of the world particularly are showing me new connections I never dreamed of before. Geni is just amazing and I have only just been following my maternal ancestry. I wonder what further surprises my paternal ancestry would bring.

Alas Ahmad, you may want to sound professional but Geni tells me that we are somehow related. For a long while I thought you were my second cousin Ahmad s/o Pehin Isa in Brunei. I discovered recently that you are not that person but nonetheless I am happy that we are at least collaborating.

Salams.