Richard III of England - DNA Contribution...

Interesting thought, but the most useful information for researchers is straight-line male Y-DNA and straight-line female mtDNA.

Mixed ancestry (male-female) has to rely on autosomal DNA, which has a very high "noise to signal" ratio and is problematical beyond about five generations (at the present level of technology) - barring something like *obvious* Neanderthal or "Denisovan" markers.

There is not, at present, an "obvious" Plantagenet or Neville or whatever "signal" in autosomal DNA.

Hello Cousin Maven... I seem to have strong links to The Royal Houses that perhaps might help re-align and/or strengthen or prove some of the family lines from The United States, that are now in question. It is not my intention to rock the boat, but to bring additional verification through My family tree that somehow got forgotten or didmissed due to centuries of errors?

Richard 111 of England is my 4th cousin 16 times removed follow on my fathers side her is my linkhttp://www.geni.com/path/Judy-Rice+is+related+to+Richard-III-of-Eng...

http://www.geni.com/path/Judy-Rice+is+related+to+Richard-III-of-Eng...

Al. here's another way to understand what Maven is saying.

After about 5 generations the DNA starts to "wash out". The odds begin to stack against you having any DNA from a particular ancestor. By the time you get back to the typical royal line in the 13th century, or even the 16th century, the odds are astronomical against sharing any DNA with a particular ancestor who lived back then.

Of course, you do have all your DNA from some of your ancestors back then, but to sort it out you would need to know ALL of your ancestors in that generation, AND you would have to have at least two other people who knew ALL of their ancestors in that generation. And then, to peg it to your royal line, you and these other people would have to have NO other ancestors in common.

Not even the Queen's DNA would help at the current level of technology.

SooooooooooooooooooTrue Justine thks for sharing

Justin and Judy. Yes... I agree, but what even 'Ent' or 'Particle' of DNA there is in me that goes to that line I think is helpful. This is what I am interested in exploring how strong or weak My DNA genes can provide in this research?

Hello cousins! Richard III is my first cousin thru Eleanor Pearcy. I am interested in connecting my dna to Neville line as well. Check out a post i made today,it has my mtdna listed. Although I'm having trouble interpreting it

Al, I encourage you to go back and re-read. There are hundreds of thousands of people living today with proven descents from Edward III. Many of them could have some little particle of Plantagenet DNA that might help, but most won't have any at all, and at the current level of science there is no way to know which particle it might be.

My DNA is in the works as we speak.

Justin... Again I agree there are many descendants from Edward III, but if My DNA can be helpful, then what's the fuss? No matter if it helps or not... it's my contribution to the research?

Your DNA cannot be helpful. The technology doesn't exist.

Some people take the test in a spirit of scientific curiosity, to see what they find out. Sometimes they're surprised (and occasionally horrified).

Thank you Maven... Some aspects of Science has been found quite by accident. :)

This is a very interesting topic. I am also a first cousin of Richard III. I contacted Prof Kevin Schurer who is working on the DNA at Leiscester University. He told me that my DNA would be of no use to them as they are looking for an unbroken male line where they can trace the Y chromosome. An unbroken female line for tracing matrilineal DNA would also be of interest. My line includes both male and female ancestors. They alos suspect many irregularities and possible cuckolding along the line.

I had posted the following article about "false paternity" published in October 2014.

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/141202/ncomms6631/full/ncomms6631...

The publishers state that the known male "descendants" are not descendants of Richard III. The female line was proven.
Therefore - I conclude - that no living male can prove to be related to Richard III.
Please read this very intresting article.

"......Here we report DNA analyses of both the skeletal remains and living relatives of Richard III. We find a perfect mitochondrial DNA match between the sequence obtained from the remains and one living relative, and a single-base substitution when compared with a second relative. Y-chromosome haplotypes from male-line relatives and the remains do not match, which could be attributed to a false-paternity event occurring in any of the intervening generations......."

That's the Beaufort/Somerset line, which has several opportunities for cuckoos to have appeared in it. Not only do four of the tested subjects not match Richard, the fifth doesn't match the others either. (So there's one cuckoo for certain.)

I appreciate both sides of this conversation. I hesitate to rely on anything from Geni unless it is a Master File, and then I am still relying on that one person's accounting. However, I am very interested in this particular inquiry, since, like Daphne, I am shown to be related independently to Richard's mother and to his father. Richard's mother is shown as Cecily Neville, Duchess of York my 18th great aunt. Richard III and Anne of York are my 1st cousins 18Xs removed.

John of Gaunt is my 19th Great Grandfather and Alfred the Great, King of the Anglo-Saxons is my 33rd great grandfather. Now. Where does that get me?

I have done the Ancestry.com DNA test, but know nothing about DNA testing on Geni. I am very willing to exchange test results, even if they are autosomal. I also emailed Leicester University, but got no response. I am curious because I think my maternal line may not be less direct than Mike Ibsen's or Wendy Duldig's.

I see J.Gaunt you mentioned Lois, but there are too many gender splits on the line I think? I know that when it comes to me, it looks the same.
men, women, not any direct maternal or paternal lines at all.

Lois Marian Jewell is Ulf Ingvar Göte Martinsson's 23rd cousin five times removed!

http://www.geni.com/path/Ulf-Martinsson+is+related+to+Lois-Jewell?f...

Alfred "Ed Moch" Cota, you show as my 17th cousin twice removed.

Maven B. Helms, you show as my 19th cousin 6 times removed.

Judy Rice, you show as my 17th cousin five times removed.

Justin Swanström, you show as my 17th cousin.

Carrie Ann Todd, you show as my 10th cousin once removed.

Daphne Elaine Beames, you show as my 13th cousin 6 times removed (and Cape Town is one of my favorite cities on the planet).

Gerhard Ludwig Fiedler, Geni says we're connected but they don't find the path. More likely you're related to my German/Celt husband.

Hi, Cousin Ulf! You are right. I spoke in error. Richard Plantagenet is only a direct relative of mine if he is the father of Richard III.

Edward III Plantagenet is well documented in "geni". According to the analyses of "Charting Companion" there is only the Beaufort/Somerset line known until today as descendants of the Plantagenets with Y-chromosome DNA.
The pdf-article "Identification of the remains of King Richard III" and the "Charting Companion" analyses is stored under:

Edward III, king of England

What do we know about Medivial European History? Very, very little because documents were lost during wartimes or were falsified, "bastards and cuckoos" were the rule in noble families. Secondary historical sources were very often propaganda.
DNA analyses are very good tools for a lot of issues. However, after 10 or more generations the grains of rice on the chessboard are too many to make a distinct genetic footprint. Nice picture, just try to make a footprint in a ship loaded with tons of rice.

Yes, Gerhard. I was wrong about being wrong! Geni is doing another of its hiccups. This is not my first encounter. According to Geni, Edward III Plantagenet, King of England is my 20th Great Grandfather. His son, John of Gaunt is my 19th Great Grandfather and Richard Plantagenet, 3rd Duke of York is Edward III of England's great grandson. So, I'm guessing I must be directly related to Richard III's father, independent of my relationship to his mother.
However, it remains that there are men as well as women in my paths.

Gerhard,

"What do we know about Mediaeval European History? Very, very little"...

Well, that's what I thought when I studied it. But (for England at least) it may be as much as for the sixteenth or seventeenth centuries.

Parchment lasts a lot longer than paper. Of course documents got lost or destroyed (in revolutions, like the Dissolution of the Monasteries in England, or the French Revolution). To take the English records, we have in the Domesday Book a comprehensive list of the land-holders in 1086 and 1066. By the fourteenth century we have a lot of post-mortem inquisitions on property-holders, which often give a precise date of death; even earlier, we have a lot of wills and other transactions. By 1415, we have records which show which four knights were sharing a tent on the Agincourt campaign (because tents and their transport cost money, which was accounted for). Even with faked documents it is nowadays quite easy to work out what parts might have been genuine, or at least copied off another real document, on grounds of style.

"Bastards and cuckoos" exist in every society, and allegations of bastardy were common when the succession to ings was in question I can't see any real reason to suppose that theywere more common in the medieval period than now, especialy among the upper classes.

Medieval history has barely been scratched!

Mark

Very interesting discussion of a fascinating subject (DNA). Richard III is my 1st cousin 17X, thru Edward Neville, my ggf & brother of Richard's mum.

Thanks Mark for your answer, however- we are changing the object. Is it DNA or history?
I do agree upon your opinion about the state of Brittish historical research. I am studying local history in Sweden (Gothenborg). Through immigrants from Scottish clans and old vikings our family got connected to a lot of ancient "geni-goblins". A lot of my time I had to spent to remove fantasy profiles with "relatives" without any reality relation.
In 2012 I got related to "God Almighty" via UrcMacOrc and OrcMacUrc from Ireland; another famous link made us descendant to of all the ancient Gods ever known.
I simply wanted to make a documention of my family relationships - but because of all the nonsense in "geni" a meaningful "gedcom"-transfer is not possible any more. (you cannot choose the number of generations and if you are connected to king David you will be lost in time and space).

Now I have blended history, documentation, DNA and the meaning of geni.
Anyhow; I repeat that - to my knowlegde - no living male can prove to be descendant of the Plantagents. Therefore - study available lierature and do not rely on "geni".

All of us are bringing up some very interesting facts and points of view. I would have dismissed this interest in Richard III, except for some personal Skeleton's I found in my closet.
ie: Historical photographs of My Grandfather with Lord Lewis Montbatten and Dwight D. Eisenhower Etc.

According to Geni, Richard III is my 15th GGrandfather. I have a direct line to the Plantagenant side. My DNA says I'm 100% United Kingdom, East & West. I just have the basic DNA from Ancestry.Com. All the royalty in my line is from my father's (PAGE) side. I suppose it would be a good idea to get more testing done.

My Uncle Ernest Stevens was WPA artist for Roosevelt in the 1930's and he was the 12th g grandson of Cecily Neville. sadly he did not have any children that I know of, but if he had they would 13th ggrandson or daughter of Richard III's mother. The Y DNA trail ends at Wm.Hilton IV....but the mt. DNA trail may yet be traced to Baron Hilton's descendants? Justin would be able to trace this if it were possible.
http://www.geni.com/path/Cecily-Neville+is+related+to+Ernest-E-Stev...

His brother, David Ezra Stevens daughter married into the Hennings family, same name I think was used to from a Canadian Family by that name. DCR