Stephen Hopkins, "Mayflower" Passenger - Updates & corrections to ancestry & descent of Stephen Hopkins

John Hopkins and Elizabeth Williams are the probable parents of Stephen Hopkins of the Mayflower.

To get an understanding of this family we need to spend some time reading the looking over the documents and research from Hampshire. So much misinformation over the years to confuse us.

See the part about the TAG article from 2004 by Ernest Christensen who found the records in Hampshire in this GoogleBook:
http://tinyurl.com/Johnson-Book
(pub 2007 with parts now at GoogleBooks) That author was responsible for the 1998 find of the Hampshire records from 1613.

Elizabeth didn't die in 1584. Another made-up date. She died "after" 1584 but after a while some people just stop adding "before" and "after."

She was granted administration of John Hopkins' estate on 4 October 1593 in Winchester (having moved from Upper Clatford years before). John didn't die before April 1593 and not in Gloucester.

For years the Gloucester Hopkins family has been comingled and mangled with the Hampshire family because of information in a book that got grabbed by overeager beginners who then submitted it to LDS IGI and it's been downhill since. Those "facts" were copied onto trees and were the basis for Ancestry's OneWorldTree that was made by a programmed computer sweep through submittals. The program counted up how many names there were for each husband/wife/child combination and putlished the name that appeared most often. Which is how Constance Dudley got all over the interent and is still being added to new trees. She has many Green Leaf Hints on Ancestry. All of them wrong.

John Hopkins' inventory was reported 4 September 1593 in Winchester so it's most probable that he died around the end of August. Then a month later Elizabeth was appointed administrator. There is a woman in Winchester with that name who paid two taxes in 1594 then we don't see her again. We do not know where or when she died but you'd be surprised at how many trees have her dying in 1594 in London and buried under the name Elizabeth Williams. Talk about name collecting!

http://tinyurl.com/WIKIPEDIA-Stephen-Hopkins
has a quick summary of Stephen and info found after 2007 on details of 1st wife, Mary

We don't know where or when Elizabeth Williams was born (or where or when John was born but not in Warwickshire) but they were married in Upper Clatford in July 1579 which isn't in the city of Wincester.

Someone invented the "Capt" part a few years ago -- there are no records in Hampshire that have him as a Capt. Someone decided with the arms in his inventory he must have been the head of the whole militia for Hampshire and invented his title.

Best sources for the records from Hampshire are from Caleb Johnson, Ernie Christensen and Simon Neal.

For a BIG summary of what we know and don't know about Stephen Hopkins see
http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.hopkins/5435/mb.ashx

(and more from Shirley)

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..... the problem with posting it all as a discussion is that no one who should read it will. They'll fall asleep. Very few who actually have an interest will make it to the end and won't understand what I'm saying anyway. As long as there are errors in the Overview About section putting facts in the Discussion area won't help beginners. Even the "stories" shown on Stephen first page have serious errors and a few large sections are repeated (like two old Wikipedia pages that were cut & pasted) taking up extra room.

Most Newbies don't read below the fold or click on a discussion button but want to contribute what they've found on other trees to the front page without doing any prep. They rush to fill in the all blanks and add stories that make no sense because that's what they think they're supposed to do.

One line on his Overview says
"Married twice. Not sure what order. Other wife unknown."

One line says,
"Same Stephen Hopkins married to Constance Dudley Hopkins and father of Bethia."

Constance DUDLEY has been removed from the bio section at the top and has no business being in the overview section.

Already In the Discussion tab is the HUGE amount of typing that Sally Thomas (v. 78, no. 2, June 2012 The Mayflower Quarterly, by Simon Neal) did back in Oct 2013 from Simon Neal's article that should be emphasized. The article she painstakingly typed out is on line now and the 26 pages of references she mentioned are here also:
https://www.themayflowersociety.org/images/stories/quarterly/nov-ju...
http://tinyurl.com/NEAL-SOURCES

You can use any of my stuff anywhere you want but you'll probably want to cut out a LOT. Please always try to put the two The American Genealogist (TAG) sources on everything you post. These are the guys who found the information or were responsible for the search. Since the Hopkins brick wall didn't come down until 1998 (and more chipped away in 2004) it's easy to say that everything written about Stephen Hopkins'
birth date,
birth place,
parents,
first wife,
siblings, and
made-up children
before 1998 and/or 2004 is wrong.

Here's what you need as references/citations/sources on every page that has anything to do with Stephen Hopkins of the Mayflower.

1.
Caleb Johnson, "The True Origins of Mayflower Passenger Stephen Hopkins,"
The American Genealogist, 73(1998):161-171

2.
Ernest M. Christensen, "The Probable Parentage of Stephen Hopkins of the Mayflower,"
The American Genealogist, 79(October 2004):241-249

3.
Wikipedia has him more correct than 99% of the trees on the internet, but if we cut and paste old copy (we already have 2 on the front page) then when the info is corrected or editied we're left with old, bad info or errors. Better to just put the URL of the page so people can click to get the newest version and we're all on the same page.
http://tinyurl.com/WIKIPEDIA-Stephen-Hopkins

4,
http://www.americanancestors.org/StaticContent/articles?searchby=to...
Researching the Mayflower -- Sorting the Good from the Bad.
(might have to sign up for free to see it. Not sure)

I think you'll want to put John Hopkins and Elizabeth Williams back as Stephen's parents after you fix all the stuff with John and his other 3 kdis. If you don't someone will come along and put Nicholas Hopkins and Mary Poole as his parents. No joke.

You'll want to fix John Hopkins' son, William, who has an extremely small chance of being the guy possibly born in Worcester who married Helen Vickaris whose daughter Elizabeth married Wakeman. We don't know the birth date or parents of the MP William Hopkins from Ribbesford, Worcester who died there in 1647. No known Hampshire connection.

John and Agnes's son Wm was baptized in Upper Clatford, Hampshire 16 June 1574 according to the LDS index but 16 June 1575 according to the researchers set out by Caleb Johnson (page 166) at
http://tinyurl.com/Johnson-Book
which is quoted from The American Genealogist, 79 (October 2004) pp 241-249.

I've not seen the original record book so don't know which year is correct but I think you know who I'd side with in a tree.

Susanna is correct with bapt 24 June 1584, but is the daughter of Elizabeth Williams, not Agnes Burrow/Barrow/Borrow/e, etc., because Agenes probably died before John married Elizabeth in 1579.

Alice Hopkins is the dau of Agnes. Alice's baptism was 20 March 1576 according to the index as LDS but 20 March 1577/8 according to the research in Hampshire per page 166 at
http://tinyurl.com/Johnson-Book
which is quoted from The American Genealogist, 79 (October 2004) pp 241-249.

We do not have any proof what happened to John Hopkin's son William or his two daughters Alice (didn't marry Gilbert) and Susannah (didn't marry Edward Fuller). Researchers and scholars think that Stephen is probably the man on the Mayflower.

I have no idea where someone got an exact death date for Agnes Borrow/e of 28 April 1579 in Andover. No one I know has seen that death date or town for her death. Andover is close to Upper Clatford but so are a lot of other villages. Hursley, Andover and Upper Clatford are not part of the city of Winchester. It takes 15 or 20 minutes by bus to get to Hursley.

You'll want to fix the birth place of Elizabeth Fisher, Stephen's 2nd wife, and her death date if I remember correctly. U.S. & International Marriage Records 1560-1900 is not a historical document or record. It's a hit on a database compiled by a computer sweep through submittals from people who often are just name collectors. There are at least 6 "US & Int'l Marriage Records" for Stephen and Elizabeth -- all of them different. We know none of them are real. Plus there are at least 6 of them for Constance Dudley so you know where this discussion is going.

A real marriage record has an exact marriage month and date and an exact place that the marriege took plage.

One of my favorite "US & Int'l Marriage Records" (for Stephen to the mythical Constance Dudley shows that he was born in Massachusetts and there's one for Elizabeth that shows she was born in Massachusetts. If we want the actual marriage record for Elizabeth Fisher we have to go to Ancestry (search under Eliza Fisher).

Elizabeth was probably alive when Stephen had the problem with the pregnant servant since it's unlikely a single woman would be living the a widower's household. We know Elizabeth had already died before Stephen wrote his will on 6 June 1644 so the appropriate death range for Elizabeth Fisher would be from Feb 1639 to June 1644 (Bradford said they'd lived there for 20 years).

Easiest place to find PRE-Mayflower info on this family:
http://tinyurl.com/Johnson-Book

Do you work on first wife Mary's page? It says she was born in London and buried in Winchester. The 1 Jan 1580 date is a hold-over from the mythical Constance Dudley and she's listed in the Hursley burial (and probate) records, not Winchester.

My first comment was confusing. Sorry.

I should have said clearly that neither Morgan Williams nor Elizabeth Breynton were in Hampshire and had no connection to the Mayflower but that Elizabeth Williams and John Hopkins definitely were there and are probably Mayflower Stephen's parents.

Since Morgan and Elizabeth Breyton have been removed from Elizabeth Williams the bio section on the first page mentioning them is now awkward.

Shirley

Adding more corrections needed:

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William Hopkins, of Eastham

The William Hopkins who died June 1718 was married and had known children. He was not the son of Giles Hopkins of the Mayflower and Catherine Wheldon.
We don't know the date of William of Eastham, Barnstable's death .

The man who died in 1718 died in NY per
New York, Genealogical Records, 1675-1920
Name: William Hopkins
Death Date: 1718
Death Place: Orient, Long Island, Suffolk, New York, United States

There is a photo floating around on Ancestry of his headstone that shows he was the husband of Rebecca Havens and they have documentation in New York.

SEE HERE:::::
http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/hopkins/2091/

Giles Hopkins' son was placed in the care of older brother Stephen in Giles' will because he was unable to care for himself.

'Giles Hopkins left land and cattle to son Stephen with condition that `after my decease my son Stephen Hopkins shall take ye care and oversight and maintaine my son William HOpkins during his natural Life in a comfortable decent manner'; Giles also left two acres to his wife and son William for their life use, to go to son Joshua upon their deaths; William was evidently un[married] and d.s.p. ((descessit sine prole; died without issue )) after 5 March 1688/9; no proof has been found and it appears unlikely that this man was identical with William Hopkins (1660-1718) of Shelter Island NY, who m. Rebecca Havens and had issue.'[1]

(1) Mayflower Families in Progress: Stephen Hopkins of the Mayflower and his descendants for four generations Abbreviation: Hopkins, 4 gen Author: John D. Austin Publication: General Society of Mayflower Descendants, Plymouth MA, 1988

Some of the Immediate Family shown on William's page aren't quite right

There is no brother named Stephen III Hopkins. The "third" was invented years ago when someone decided that Stephen Hopkins of the Mayflower (1581-1644) was the unnamed, non-gendered child of of a Stephen Hopkins in Gloucestershire. However no indication on the baptism record on 29 Oct 1581 that it was "son" of or "daughter" of. Since the probably Mayflower Hopkins had been baptized 6 months earlier in Hampshire there are not Hopkins researchers or scholars who think the unnamed child bapt in Glocester is him. .

John II ? I'm assuming someone named him II after his grandfather though he never appears in Bradford's records like that. He didn't die at one day. He died around 3 months. The logic would follow that if a girl is named Mary and her grandmother was named Mary that she should now be written Mary II.

Giles Hopkins' death is shown at http://www.geni.com/people/Giles-Hopkins-Mayflower-Passenger/600000...
as exactly April 26, 1690.
"Giles Hopkins died between 5 March 1688/89, the date of a codicil to his will, and 16 April 1690, the date on which his will was admitted to probate."
http://www.pilgrimhallmuseum.org/giles_hopkins.htm

Find-a-Grave is problematic for some of these old folks. A lot of the info was copied from OneWorldTree which was discontinued in 2008 because of so many errors.

The clarku.edu link on William's page is dead and the text was cut and pasted from somewhere (reference numbers 3,156 and 55?) so we now have to reference to verify.

Constance (Hopkins) Snow, "Mayflower" Passenger

The dates for Nicholas Snow "1646-1662" are probably the dates he was Clerk of Eastham or some other civil job that I can't remember without looking it up. Those aren't his birth or death date. We don't know when he was born but he died in Nov 1676.

Did we ever figure out how Anthony got born to that couple in Plymouth the year before the Pilgrims arrived? And his non-brother Micajah who is never recorded as their child either?

Thanks
Shirley

While I was in London, UK last month some of there records who was on these ships seem to differ than what all is listed here. I was at the National Archives at the British Library, of which tons of their records go back to the year 901. And quite a bit of their records are online. Www.bk.uk. They even proved Wikipedia was false with real facts. Please verify your sources.

Breya, I tried the www.bk.uk link you provided and it doesn't work. I think the first "k" should be an "l", thus www.bl.uk I'm pretty new at this so any help with British records is helpful! Thanks for posting the link, even with an error. It gave me a place to look.

Check your firewall, otherwise search for "The British Library", then go to collections and databases

http://www.bl.uk/index.shtml?noredirection=true#