Maaij Claesje van Angola - Any known portraits for Maaij Claesje van Angola?

'Maaij' Claesje van Angola

Geni shows her as my maternal 10th great grandmother-through a daughter with a Mathyssen from Germany...She may have belonged to the U5 mtDNA haplogroup originating around 55,000 years ago. Her particular subgroup may have originated in NW Africa somewhere in Mali. One can be sure she had very dark skin,probably with a powerful build(a prized attribute for slaves). What we cannot know is whether she was tall like many W Africans or stocky. Afrcan-Americans are generally both tall and muscular,but they mostly hail from W Africa,particularly Liberia. If Maai Claesje did actually come from Angola her origins were most likely coastal.

There is something wrong with this link /profile..Hazel Wickham has this as her MtDNA line..But she tested as U5b1c2b..Which is European!..So either this ancestor is incorrect, & was European..Or Hazel's line back to Maaij Claas van Angola is incorrect

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_U_(mtDNA) possible Berber; possible

Guinea-Bissau

U5b1c2b seems to be quite rare..Haven't found much on this actual group..Does Hazel Ann know any more?

I've seen her haplogroup recorded as L4... Which would make more sense. I'll try and find where I saw it.

http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/g8/p8113.htm

If so, she cannot be Hazel Ann Wickham's matrilineal ancestor...Entirely possible, as my MtDNA clashed with a then matrilineal "ancestor" I had..Since removed, from that part of my line.

I would suggest the Maria Matyssen link is wrong..She is listed as Maaij's daughter, by Matthys Eli Matthyssen..This cannot now be correct.

Made an error-Maai Claesje's daughter Jannetjie van Wyk's descendant tested L4b2b which originated in Mali.The confusion stems from Mr van Wyk's 2 Dutch wives. He was obviously not inclined
to mention his involvement with Maai Clarsje
.

I am 99% sure of my line up to Sara Bekker.

Sara Helena Dorothea Bekker (Olivier)

So if there is any error I think it happened above that stage.

See the next info on
http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/g8/p8113.htm
Jannetjie daughter of Maaij Claasje.

Children
Jannetje van Wijk+ b. b 27 Oct 1675;A direct matrilineal descendant of Jannetje van Wijk has tested positive for mtDNA haplogroup L4b2b - a rare group which current informatoin suggests is centered in northwest Africa around Mali. This strongly suggests that Jannetje's mother would have been one of the slaves generally identified as 'van Guinea' or 'van Angola.' Many of these slaves were embarked at Benin for the Cape and came from as far afield as Sudan. This further suggests that this mother-daughter relationship is indeed correct

This might be of interest in narrowing down where Claesje originated from - My autosomal DNA shows a small amount of 'West African' at 23andme which I can only attribute to coming from Cleasje and the father of Christijn Pietersz van de Kaap. Unfortunately, I'm not a matrilineal descendent of hers so my mtDNA won't give any helpful info. The West African supports the likelihood that Cleasje was one of the Guinea or Angolan slaves.

So, Private User & Alistair Moncur Knox - I'm going to cut Maria Matyssen, SM/PROG from being the daughter of 'Maaij' Claesje van Angola

What proof do we have that her father was Matthijs Eli Matyssen. (As that might help us find her mother.)

Thanks Private User for spotting this - It's been very helpful.

You're very welcome, Sharon.

Private User, what is your source for Willem van Wyk being Jannetje van Wijk 's father with 'Maaij' Claesje van Angola?

Jannetje's baptism record describes her father as an 'Unknown Christian'
http://www.eggsa.org/sarecords/index.php/church-registers/cape-town...
Cape Town Baptisms 1675
Den 27 dito (Octob')
een Comp' slavinne kint
van een onbekent Christen vader
de moeder was Claasje die over
[dit doop van t'Comp's] wegen
als getuyghe gestaan heeft
de Vaandrigh Jeronymus Croese
des kints naam Jannetje

FFY Project had a whole bunch of van Wyks as children of Maaij Claesje.
,suddenly only Jannetjie,so it does all seem up in the air right now.

Hmm - did they have Willem?

Afraid I can't recall-assumed list would be of a more permanent nature..I'm waiting for my DNA test kit so watch this space..

Private User says:
I'd like to suggest making some changes to the https://www.geni.com/people/Maaij-Claesje-van-Angola/60000000062453... tree.

At the moment Jannetje van Wyk is not shown as having an children on the Geni tree but there seems to be good evidence she is mother of Margaretha Hartog (who has no other baptism record): "[1700] 18 april Een kint van Jannetie van Wyk, onder getuyge van Claas Cornelis en Sara Leendertz, gen:t Margrieta"

Making this change would also help the S.A. mtDNA Female Progenitors Project, as we could re-list Noelene Pearce with her L4b2b result under Maaij Claesje instead of Maria Bellardy -(which makes no sense).

I also see no point in continuing to have Christijn Pietersz van de Kaap attached to Maaij Claesje's tree seeing as Mansell Upham was the only source for that connection and must have changed his mind (de-listed on FFYP).]

...here she is: https://www.geni.com/people/Maaij-Claesje-van-Angola/60000000062453...

Daughter Jannetje van Wijk... needs to be made mother of Margaretha Piek, b3 SM...
(instead of current mother Maria Bellardy).

And https://www.geni.com/people/Christijn-van-de-Kaap/60000000388285845... may as well be cut free from this tree until an mtDNA result surfaces for her.

I do see where you're coming from as there is no documentation as such for Christijn Pietersz van de Kaap being the daughter of Claesje. It would be interesting to see what Mansell Upham says about why he made the possible connection.

When it comes to atDNA it appears that Christijn Pietersz van de Kaap is 100% Subsaharan African. I'm hoping we can find a few matrilineal descendants to test their mtDNA.

I would also wait for some of the others to add to this.
Private User and others.

Judi

I can't add anything here - sorry

Hi Kirsten-Louise Mason,

Agreed! (Mansell's reasons). I'd also love to see transcripts of the relevant passages in the Arnoldus Koevoet estate letters that suggest/confirm the various relationships between Christijn and her children. I've only read parts of Nigel Worden's book that are available on-line - and haven't yet looked into where the original letters are held and if transcripts are available.

I've also wondered if there is any possibility that Chistijn Pietersz could have been the daughter of Pieter Pietersz? http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/g13/p13595.htm
(because of her surname)

As for your atDNA admixture results. Your tree is quite exceptional in that you have all South African lines traced back to stamouers with only one recorded African (slave) ancestor. So until an mtDNA line can be found your admixture results are our strongest clue.

But we do still need to be cautious and consider this only as a POSSIBLE indication of Christijn's origins. To be sure we would need to verify every step in every line of your tree with mt, Y or atDNA matches.

Christijn Pietersz van de Caep has been removed as 'Maaij' Claesje van Angola's daughter.

Private User, I see you've added Margaretha Piek, b3 SM as the child of Jannetje van Wijk. I've put (www.familysearch.org) baptism record onto her profile too: "[1700] 18 april Een kint van Jannetie van Wyk, onder getuyge van Claas Cornelis en Sara Leendertz, gen:t Margrieta https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/…,49605402,49605403,49605404 - last accessed 18 Apr 2014."

Private User, is there a reason you think she is Maria?
cf Curator Note from June Barnes (20/6/2014):
b3 Margaretha Hartog - not listed in SAF v 14
Is she the same person as b2 Maria ≈ Dec 1688?
TFFYP - have 2 separate children
SM of her Piek Children

What factors are we using to make Margaretha Piek, b3 SM the child of Abraham Hartog, SV/PROG?