John de Puttenam - Puttenham lineage

Here is Nicholas de Puttenham, of Penn

I will also move this here. Thank you.

http://sites.rootsweb.com/~kugerrand/articles.htm

Here is a link to some articles on the family history of the Putnam/Puttenham family.

There is also A PDF I believe its called A Referenced History of the Putnam family in England and America

There seems to be two conflicting stances well three if we say we don't know for sure.

What Conclusion would you reach with this information as for the ancestry of Richard Puttenham/Putnam of Eddlesborough? Both parties agree his father was John Puttenham of Eddlesborough from my understanding a gentleman but at his time I dont think all gentleman had a Coat of Arms. What do you think?

The current line on geni is considered disproved by the College of Heraldry in England

Richard Putnam, of Edelsborough

Sir Roger de Puttenham II

Robert de Puttenham

http://sites.rootsweb.com/~kugerrand/ngraham.htm

Well im no expert and I dont have the amounts of money to pay the College of Heraldry. Even though it was the College of Heraldry that sent me in the direction of Moriarty's work it appears to me the later work of Graham proves that the Salem line of the Putnam family are in fact Decendants of Robert Puttenham. Making this line armigerous

Its technically called the College of Arms I believe. For some reason I keep calling it the College of Heraldry.

Can you post the immigrant ancestor? There might be more current research to study, including Y DNA studies.

Re: Richard Putnam, of Edelsborough

“According to what I have found the correct line is -

Sir Roger de Puttenham
Robert
Henry
John
Richard.“

Does anyone disagree?

I think this is his immigrant Putnam ancestor

John Putnam

Sir Roger de Puttenham II

Robert de Puttenham

Henry Puttenham d 1473 dosen't have a profile

John Puttenham of Eddlesborough does not have a Profile

Richard Putnam, of Edelsborough

Yes John Putnam is my 10th great grandfather he is the immigrant ancestor.

If you follow the Puttenham line back, it reverts to Fitz Wale.

Thomas Fitz-Wale de Puttenham, of Eydon

https://www.houseofnames.com/wale-family-crest#:~:text=The%20surnam....

Further back it stops with

Galo Fitz Wale

THE PRIORY OF CANONS ASHBY (Northhamptonshire)

From the Pateshull family they acquired lands at Bolnhurst,

**and the church of Puttenham, Hertfordshire, from the Wale family.**

Nicholas, archdeacon of Huntingdon, 1155-1184, at the presentation of Richard son of **Galo** instituted the prior and canons of Ashby as parson of the church of **Puttenham** in the presence of Richard, parson of the same church; the said Richard was to pay 12d. yearly to the canons in the name of the said canons. This is an early instance of a quasi-appropriation. By an undated charter of warranty Robert son of Ralph de Everdon granted to the prior and canons the mill of Cotes in perpetuity according to the tenor of a charter of his father.

In 1282 Elias the prior of Ashby entered into an agreement with Beatrice, prioress of Sewardsley, **Thomas Wale, lord of Eydon**, Sir Henry, rector of the same, and other free tenants, to the effect that the prior and prioress should enjoy common pasture in the east field of Eydon in fallow time, and Thomas Wale and his free tenants the same in the west field.

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/northants/vol2/pp130-133

John of Eddlesborough does have a profile i forgot his was the first one tagged

BTW Kathleen J. Callanan writes:

“I have no objection...Let's see where it will take us. I am currently not reseaching this time period for myself, so I appreciate the labors of others. “

—-

Private User Thank you for joining in, especially since apparently we have conflicting sources to reconcile.

I want to make sure our first American is as good as we can get before diving into the English lines, but there’s no reason this can’t be a simultaneous effort.

As part of cleanup, disconnected wife of Nicholas Putnam & Agnes Putnam (Puttenham) as children of William de Puttenham, II

Erica
Thank you for your help.

Is there away to share images in the comments here?

I added two photos to Richard Putnam, of Edelsborough profile. One is the linage from Anschitil to Sir Roger de Puttenham the other from Sir Roger de Puttenham to John Putnam of Salem.

This is from the book Church And Manor Of Puttenham Hertfordshire A History Of England In Miniature.

The pedigree and family history for your ancestor, John Putnam is described in this genealogy of the Putnam family (beginning on page 3). But I suppose you have seen it already and are reasonably certain that you are his descendant.

I gather you wish to know if this John Putnam inherited the right to bear the Putnam arms. And if so, how the arms might have passed down through the generations until now.

The frontispiece of this book illustrates the standard Putnams of Salem coat of arms, a very elegant stork motif. But I also ran across an interesting example of needlepoint by one Sallie Putnam of NEW ENGLAND, 1790-1810, which brought $11,250 at a Christie's auction (PROPERTY FROM THE STONINGTON COLLECTION, Provenance Marguerite Riordan, Stonington, Connecticut, 1980) -- which is entirely different, with three boars' heads, a lion and a chevron against a light blue background. Maybe this is some sort of family crest, maybe irrelevant; I just thought it was interesting.

https://www.christies.com/lotfinder/Lot/a-silk-coat-of-arms-needlew...

https://books.google.com/books?id=YN4UAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontco...

Thank you for sharing. the one with the boars is From the Dutch Pootman/Putnam family.

The Putnam arms in the books are attributed to thr Putnam family of Penn and or Salem. It was once believed through Nicholas of Penn. However that line is disproved according to the College of Arms in England by the work of Andrew Moriarty. I have found the work of Norman Graham disproves Moriarty and the work of M.C. Vincent also draws the line down from Robert Puttenham but she does state some students of the pedigree believe it is his brother Richard from whom we decend.

It is my opinion that Norman Graham disproves Moriarty. That his work shows we are in fact armigerous. We the derict Male line Decendants would or should be able to quarter our arms with Warbleton. It is only the eldest Male of the eldest line from John Putnam of Eddlesborough who is entitled to the Ancient arms of the family or the Arms of Robert de Puttenham who was an Esquire. The rest of the surviving Male line Decendants should be entitled to differenced arms such as my personal arms my profile picture. Note this are my personal arms that have been differenced from the Ancient arms. Each derict Male decedents arms would be different from each other. I made a post about our right to arms. I believe we do have the right but the College of Arms doesn't recognize it at this time because the line from Nicholas of Penn was disproved.

We should also correct the Profile Nicholas Putnam, of Stewkeley according to the College of Arms he was not a knight.

So I went ahead an sent the College of Arms an Email with the information I have here is part of my email.
To whom it may concern,

A few months back I contacted the College about the Putnam/Puttenham family right to arms. I was pointed in the direction of Mr. Andrew Moriarty's work on my family. Upon further investigation I found a work that disproved The work of Mr Moriarty

http://sites.rootsweb.com/~kugerrand/ngraham.htm Here is the Work done by Mr. Graham. He also makes some references to the Work of Mr Moriarty. I have also found that the Work by M.C Vincent draws our lineage from Robert de Puttenham Esquire. Who married the heiress of the Warbleton family. She does say some students of the pedigree believe we are Decendants of Richard Puttenham. I believe this is an Error as the work of Mr. Graham disproves the line from Richard de Puttenham that Mr. Moriarty once laid out.

The lineage of the family would be
Sir Roger de Puttenham
Robert de Puttenham
Henry de Puttenham
John de Puttenham of Eddlesborough
Richard Puttenham/Putnam
Proved by his brothers wills
Nicholas Putnam of Stewkeley
Proved by will
John Putnam of Salem Massachusetts the immigrant
Porven Massachusetts Marriages, 1695-1910
Thomas Putnam
Proved by will
Deacon Edward Putnam
Proved by "Massachusetts Births and Christenings, 1639-1915," also by will
Edward Putnam jr
porved by Massachusetts Births and Christenings, 1639-1915
Miles Putnam
Proved by Massachusetts Births and Christenings, 1639-1915
Edward Putnam
Proved by Vermont Births and Christenings, 1765-1908"
Edward Putnam
Proved by Census
Henry Putnam
Proved by Census
Charles Putnam
Proved by Census
Stanley Raymond Putnam
Proved by DNA and birth certificate
Stanley Raymond Putnam jr
Proved by DNA
Stanley Raymond Putnam III
Proved by DNA and birth certificate
My self Joseph Edward Putnam

I hate waiting. I get there is covid slowing everything down but ive been waiting for 5 days to hear back from the College of Arms in England. For there response to the article I found that proves my family is a decendant and rightful heir to the Puttenham coat of arms.

Im fully prepared for them to say I can't prove one generation or there isn't enough evidence but facts are facts. It is my belief Norman Graham disproves Moriarty's work that took us out of the confirmed armigerous line. Pretty much every genration can be proven. Im still trying to dig around for information on John Puttenham of Eddlesborough who was a Gentleman. He was on a jury and in his time one had to be of a certain social class to be on a jury. Gentleman were often times but not always armigerous but typically Gentleman were Decendants of the Noble families. Most current notable researchers list John Puttenham of Eddlesborough as the father of Richard. It has also been noted that John Puttenham of Eddlesborough is the only Puttenham with male heirs alive to day.

The lineage of the family would be
Sir Roger de Puttenham
Proved by plea
Robert de Puttenham
Proved by settlement
Henry de Puttenham
Norman Graham list Henry as the father of John
John de Puttenham of Eddlesborough
Most current notable researchers list John as the father of Richard
Richard Puttenham/Putnam
Proved by his brothers wills
Nicholas Putnam of Stewkeley
Proved by will
John Putnam of Salem Massachusetts the immigrant
Porven Massachusetts Marriages, 1695-1910
Thomas Putnam
Proved by will
Deacon Edward Putnam
Proved by "Massachusetts Births and Christenings, 1639-1915," also by will
Edward Putnam jr
porved by Massachusetts Births and Christenings, 1639-1915
Miles Putnam
Proved by Massachusetts Births and Christenings, 1639-1915
Edward Putnam
Proved by Vermont Births and Christenings, 1765-1908"
Edward Putnam
Proved by Census
Henry Putnam
Proved by Census
Charles Putnam
Proved by Census
Stanley Raymond Putnam
Proved by DNA and birth certificate
Stanley Raymond Putnam jr
Proved by DNA
Stanley Raymond Putnam III
Proved by DNA and birth certificate
My self Joseph Edward Putnam

I found an old email to one of the guys at the college I forgot there not really allowed to travel

"Grants of honorary arms to American citizens

"American citizens may be granted honorary arms. They must meet the same criteria for eligibility as subjects of the Crown, and in addition must record in the official registers of the College of Arms a pedigree showing their descent from a subject of the British Crown. This may be someone living in the north American colonies before the recognition of American independence in 1783, or a more recent migrant."

http://www.internationalheraldry.com/myarms.htm

Here's hoping you are treated fairly and expediently. It would be wonderful to see your coat of arms displayed on your Geni avatar.

Im still waiting for a response but I also emailed a person at the College of Arms I already talked to. I forgot they were not allowed to travel. Hopefully they can give us a good answer and some advice on this lineage. Ive asked for an estimate of price of haveing my provable pedigree entered and for the College to do more research on the family. Ill probably have to save up the money im excepting a big price tag.

I am 100% confident in the lineage up to Richard Putnam, of Edelsborough. The only troubled spot in the lineage is John Puttenham of Eddlesborough as I can't find what exactly proves he is the son of Henry and father of Richard. There is a secondary source that States John Puttenham of Eddlesborough is the only one with Male heirs.

Supposedly there is some information in THE AMERICAN GENEALOGIST 95 that proves my Richard Puttenham is the son of John Puttenham of Eddlesborough but I cant find the issue. Then the next thing is figuring out what Proof there is that John was the son of Henry. If I can prove those two things then the Armigerous lineage of the Putnam family would be confirmed. I just wish the older researchers had put in more information.