What primary sources prove Gilbert de Venables to be the son of Odo II, count of Blois, Champagne and Chartres and Ermengarde, d'Auvergne
Medlands hasn't found any so far:http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/CENTRAL%20FRANCE.htm#EudesIIdied1037B
What primary sources prove Gilbert de Venables to be the son of Odo II, count of Blois, Champagne and Chartres and Ermengarde, d'Auvergne
Medlands hasn't found any so far:http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/CENTRAL%20FRANCE.htm#EudesIIdied1037B
The main reason appears to be that he is mentioned as younger brother of Stephen, Count of Blois by Sir Peter Leycester in THE FIRST THREE BARONS OF KINDERTON".
Of his ancestry, Sir Peter Leycester wrote:… This Gilbert de Venables who came to England at the time of the Norman Conquest …it is plain from ancient deeds …was younger brother to Stephen, Earl of Blois.
https://venablesancestry.wordpress.com/introduction/the-first-three...
This seems a little flimsy?
Sharon Doubell - can you take a further look comparing Gilbert Venator, 1st Baron of Kynderton & Sir Gilbert De Venables, I
Amy Anderson Wrote:
It would appear from the text that this is the brother of Stephen. My guess is the confusion is simply a matter of names being changed somewhat, written differently, and people not knowing that "Etienne" is French for "Stephen."
Removing parents and locking relationships on Gilbert de Venables pending sources for Odes and Ermengarde as his parents
Well, does his wife have any sources Petronilla de Fézensac ? She has a pretty cool name, but I don't see anything on his profile or hers to give it to her.
I just don't see anything. I see on Wikipedia a 2nd wife. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_de_Venables
No indication that the 2nd wife was the mother of his child. But I wouldn't count on this as a source since it needs more citations.
From Wikipedia:
Gilbert de Venables, aka Gilbert the Hunter, was a Norman lord who participated in the Norman Conquest of England. He was born in Venables, Eure, presumably the son of Odo II, Count of Blois (since he is mentioned as younger brother of Stephen, Count of Blois by Sir Peter Leycester).[1] He was also a kinsman of Hugh d'Avranches, Earl of Chester and fought in his retinue during the Norman Conquest.[2] His second wife was Margery, daughter of Waltheof (son of Wolfric, lord of Halton).[3]
He was the first baron of Kinderton and the progenitor of the English de Venables family; his grandson Gilbert II de Venables also held the title of Baron of Kinderton.[1] Gilbert was one of the nine barons of the county-palatine of Chester.[1][4] Although his name derives from Venables, Eure it is likely that he was the huntsman who served the Duke of Normandy based on the etymology; "Veneur" (huntsman), and "Abilis" (able).[1] His seal was a falcon sinister regardant although his descendants used a variation of the coat of arms of the counts of Blois, which suggests this was his coat of arms too.[1]
He issued a charter in 1087 in which Ralph de Brereton was a witness.[4][5] There has been speculation that ever since Ralph de Brereton there has been a close relationship between the de Venables and the de Brereton possibly that the Breretons acted as the de Venables squire/attendant.[5] Since the de Breretons were given Gilbert's third most valuable fief and were recorded as witnesses in his charters it is likely that this was the case.
Lands
He had his chief seat at Kinderton Castle but he also owned 20 other manors; Alpraham, Baguley, Blakenhall, Brereton, Davenport, Eccleston, Fifehead Magdalen, Hartford, High Legh, Hope, Exestan, Lymm, Mere, Peover, Newbold Astbury, Rostherne, Sinderland, Tarporley, Wettenhall, Wincham, and Witton.[6] By far his most profitable manors were Fifehead Magdalen (worth 7 pounds), Eccleston (2 pounds 10 shillings), Brereton (1 pound), and Blakenhall (12 shillings) for a total of 11 pounds and 2 shillings.[6] His 17 other manors (including Kinderton) combined brought him just 5 pounds 3 shillings;[6] meaning his annual income in 1086 was 16 pounds 5 shillings with more than 2/3s of his income coming from Fifehead Magdalen, Eccleston, Brereton, and Blakenhall.
In addition to his lands he had certain rights, productive enterprises, and other buildings on some of his fiefs; at Eccleston he had a boat and nets (for fishing), at Hartford he had a Salthouse, a smith, and a knight, at Lymm he had a church, at High Legh he had a church, at Mere he had a church, at Peaover he had geld in bovates, at Brereton he had a mill worth 12d, at Witton he had a mill worth 3s, and at Blackenhall he had an Eyrie.[7]
In all his fiefs he held 50 units of ploughland, 5446 acres of woodland, 12 acres of meadow, and 30 hides paying geld.[7] Living on his land he had 100 households which could have meant between 400-600 people or perhaps more.[7]
References
"THE FIRST THREE BARONS OF KINDERTON". Venables Ancestry. 5 May 2014. Retrieved 17 September 2021.
Sanders, Francis; Irvine, William Ferguson; Brownbill, J. (1896). The Cheshire Sheaf. Deesider Magazine.
Society, Chetham (1876). Remains historical and literary connected with the Palatine counties of Lancaster and Chester published by the Chetham Society.
Brereton, J. (1919). Brereton a family history. Рипол Классик. p. 8. ISBN 978-5-87100-689-4.
Archaeologia, Or, Miscellaneous Tracts Relating to Antiquity. The Society. 1849. p. 58.
"Gilbert the hunter | Domesday Book". opendomesday.org. Retrieved 17 September 2021.
"1066info4: Gilbert of Venables - his life in Cheshire Version - Updated 19 March 2020". www.rgcrompton.info. Retrieved 17 September 2021.