Helen de Lacy Dutton - Sources?

This is pre Crawley work, I think. The database was from J Weber (a member of soc.gen.medieval) and the location as Chester suggests Ormerod, and sure enough, here she is also at Nancy Lopez’ Cybergata.

http://cybergata.com/roots/4699.htm

Geoffrey married Helen de Lacy, daughter of John Fitz Richard Baron of Halton, Constable of Cheshire and Alice de Vere. (Helen de Lacy died in 1144.)

but primary sources?

Would have to open up Ormerod for his citations, and Dutton pedigrees.

I’m concerned about this extra husband Peter Pietro Chaplain De Merclesden

This is amusing.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Lacy-469

Some Dutton is said to have married an unnamed unplaced Lacy by a possibly unreliable source. Jim Weber makes her Helen Lacy, daughter of John fitz Richard de Chester (who wasn't a Lacy) and Alice de Vere. He gives the husband as Geoffrey Dutton of Warburton and Nether Tabley, which I think may be two different Geoffreys. My head hurts.

I’m going to detach Helen from parents and extra husband. She wouldn’t have been called de Lacy because that was (brother) Roger’s acquired surname, and I don’t see the had sisters.

For some references:

https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/2whaawMNCpk/m/...

Scroll down to last post on the thread

Alice, wife of John fitz Eustace, is sometimes confused with her mother and with her first cousin, Alice daughter of Aubrey III de Vere, first earl of Oxford. Alice made a grant to Rufford Abbey, stating that she was the widow of John and granddaughter of Aubrey de Vere (Aubrey II, master chamberlain of England, died 1141). Her husband had been a patron of Rufford Abbey. He died on crusade with King Richard I in late 1190. Their son Roger inherited the office of constable of the earldom of Chester. Roger inherited the sizeable estate of his paternal grandmother Aubreye and he then took the surname de Lacy/Lascy in recognition of that lineage. He died in 1211. He may have had as brothers Richard, Geoffrey and Eustace.

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Here’s John, constable of Cheshire, in Ormerod, no daughter Helen.

https://archive.org/details/historyofcountyp00orme/page/510/mode/1up

He married Alice, sister of William Mandevyle, by whom he had issue Roger constable of Cheshire, who assumed the sirname of Lacy; Eustace sirnamed de Cester ; Richard de Cester, to whom his brother Roger gave the town of Moore in Cheshire, and after Richard became a leper, and was buried at Norton; Geffrey, another son; 'Peter, another son; Ahce, a daughter: lib. C. fol. 85, b, et fol. 62, b, C, d.