Théodémir, King of the Franks at Thérouanne - born in Xaintonge?

Good point. Remind me to come back here and take a look over the weekend, if I forget to.

Theodemer (Frankish king)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Theodemer (also Theudomer) was a Frankish king. He was the son of Richomeres and his wife Ascyla.[1] His father is possibly to be identified with the Roman commander of that name, in which case Theodemer would have been a cousin of Arbogastes.

Not much is known of Theodemer. According to Gregory of Tours a war broke out between the Franks and the Romans some unknown time after the fall of the usurping Emperor Jovinus (411–413) who had been supported by the Franks. Around 422, a Roman army entered Gaul. King Theodemer and his mother Ascyla were executed by the sword.[1] Theodemer's reign is supposed to be before that of king Chlodio, and the Chronicle of Fredegar makes Chlodio his son.

References
MacDowall, Simon (2018). The Franks. London: Grub Street Publishers. p. 19. ISBN 978-1-4738-8960-6.
Further reading
Gregory of Tours, Historia Francorum, book II, chapter 9.
Prosopography of the Later Roman Empire (PLRE II), J.R. Martindale

Early sources are inconsistent regarding the origin of the Franks. Gregory of Tours is cautious, recording that "it is commonly said" that they came from Pannonia (see the document HUNGARY, KINGS), crossed the Rhine, and marched through Thuringia, citing "the historians whose works we still have" (although none of these works to which he refers appears to have survived to the present day)[1]. If this is correct, Frankish occupation of Pannonia predated the arrival there of the Ostrogoths, which is probably dated to the last decades of the 4th century from the account provided by Jordanes in his mid-6th century Getica[2]. The possibility of an early connection with Thuringia is reinforced by Chlodio's supposed grandson King Childerich seeking refuge there during his temporary exile from France. A more colourful version of the early history of the Franks is provided by the 7th century chronicler known as Fredegar who records a Trojan origin, and asserts that Merovech was conceived when Chlodio's wife went swimming and encountered a Quinotaur[3]. Ian Wood comments that there is no reason to believe that the Franks were involved in any long distance migration, as "archaeology and history suggest that they originated in the lands immediately to the east of the Rhine"[4]. This could also indicate Thuringia.

The Franks are first mentioned in the context of the Barbarian invasions of the Roman Empire in the 3rd century, Aurelius Victor and Eutropius stating that they crossed the Rhine near Köln in [257]. Gregory of Tours reports that "the Franks…set up in each country district and each city long-haired kings chosen from the foremost and most noble family of their race"[5]. If correct, this suggests a multiplicity of local leaders about whom nothing is known. Many Frankish tribes remained east of the Rhine, but by [500] most had settled west of the river[6]. Gregory reports that Chlodio was the first Frankish leader to invade Roman-occupied Gaul, as far as the river Somme[7]. He attributes to him the title "King of the Franks", but Chlodio was presumably only one of the many local Frankish leaders and hardly a "king" in the sense in which the word is used today. It is assumed that Chlodio was not the only Frankish leader to invade Roman-occupied Gaul.

The Merovingian Frankish rulers quickly imposed their authority throughout Gaul. This presumably was partly because they were geographically well placed to fill the power vacuum left by the collapse of the Roman Empire, but was also attributable to the personality and capabilities of King Clovis. Although there are indications that the authority of Chlodio's supposed grandson Childerich was limited to "Belgica Secunda"[8], the latter's son Clovis subjugated the different Frankish sub-groups in the territory of what is now France and, by the end of his life, ruled between the Rhine and Loire valleys as well as in Aquitaine. His successors conquered Provence, Burgundy, Rhaetia, Alemannia and Thuringia.

Merovingian royal rule was regionalised. For example the four sons of King Clotaire I, who died in 561, ruled different territories from their bases in Paris, Orléans, Metz and Soissons. The divisions were later formalised into the kingdoms of Austrasia (from the Rhine to the Seine valley, including Flanders and Holland) and Neustria (between the Seine and Loire valleys), these names being used for the first time by Gregory of Tours in 577.

There are many areas of uncertainty in the detail of the genealogy of the Merovingian kings. The earliest generations are reconstructed for the most part from the History of the Franks written by Gregory of Tours in the latter part of the 6th century. As will be seen below, little supplementary information concerning the early generations is provided by other near contemporary sources, and all subsequent chroniclers appear to have used Gregory as their primary source. Gregory was well-informed about contemporary political events and the lives of members of the ruling family[9]. For example, he writes of his personal role in the events which followed the second marriage of Queen Brunechildis [Brunechilde] to Merovech in 576[10]. However, his narrative spans more than a hundred years so it would not be surprising if there were inaccuracies relating to individuals in the earlier part of the history. Dating presents a particular difficulty in Gregory as he rarely specifies dates, although he frequently refers to an occurrence happening a specific number of years after another event. The documents known collectively as the Chronicle of Fredegar provide a comparable level of genealogical detail for the Merovingian rulers until the mid-7th century, although as with other sources the narrative dealing with the earlier years appears based almost exclusively on Gregory's work.
https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/MEROVINGIANS.htm

Théodomir
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%A9odomir
Titre roi franc

Prédécesseur Richomer
Successeur Clodion le Chevelu
Père Richomer
Théodomir (ou Théodomer) fut roi des Francs, peut-être rhénansN 1,1,2, au début du ve siècle. Il est le fils de Richomer, général franc au service de Rome et consul en 384, et d'Ascyla. Il est égorgé avec sa mère en 421 ou en 428.

Biographie
La seule certitude sur Théodomir vient du récit de Grégoire de Tours qui mentionne que les tables consulaires parlent de Théodomir, roi des Francs et fils de Richomer et d'Ascyla, égorgé par les Romains avec sa mère. La date de ces évènements n'est pas certaine et les dates de 4213,4 ou 4285 sont avancées. Ni Godefroid Kurth ni Michel Rouche ne donnent de date6,1.

Il peut sembler curieux que le fils d'un général franc au service de Rome et régulièrement présent à la cour devienne roi des Francs. La situation n'est cependant pas sans précédent, le cas de Mallobaud qui a été trente ans auparavant « comte des domestiques » dans l'armée romaine et « roi des Francs » en est la preuve7,8.

Il est ensuite égorgé par les Romains avec sa mère en 421 ou en 428. Dans son Dictionnaire des Francs, les Temps mérovingiens (1996), Pierre Riché pense ceci : « Il soutint la cause des usurpateurs Constantin III et Jovin ». Selon lui, Théodomir aurait été exécuté par le pouvoir romain en place (l'empereur Honorius) pour avoir soutenu les usurpateurs3. C'est possible, mais les usurpations de Constantin et Jovin remontent aux années 407 à 411 et on voit mal pourquoi Honorius aurait attendu dix à vingt ans pour châtier les séditieux.

Hypothèse sur sa descendance
Selon certains auteurs, Théodomir pourrait être le père de Clodion le Chevelu, mais la question est encore débattue.

Vers 580, Grégoire de Tours se borne à dire que Clodion règne après Théodomir. Ce récit ne prouve seulement que Grégoire de Tours ignore s'il y a une parenté entre Théodomir et Clodion. Il écrit un siècle plus tard et a certainement eu accès à des sources contemporaines, mais ces documents ne l'ont pas renseigné sur le sujet. On ne sait pas plus si la succession est immédiate ou s'il s'écoule plusieurs années entre les deux rois5.

Vers 660, la Chronique de Frédégaire précise que Clodion a succédé à son père Théodomir. Mais la plupart des historiens considèrent que ce texte est une interpolation de celui de Grégoire de Tours, ce qui est le plus probable. Toutefois, il reste une très faible possibilité que l'auteur de la Chronique ait eu accès à des sources distinctes de celle de Grégoire de Tours, comme le montrent quelques anecdotes qui ne figurent pas dans l'Histoire des Francs. Cette parenté entre Théodomir et Clodion ne peut être ni confirmée, ni infirmée5.

Enfin en 727, le Liber Historiae Francorum raconte que le père de Clodion est un roi franc du nom de Pharamond, inconnu des sources contemporaines (la première mention de Pharamond remonte au début du viie siècle). C'est la théorie qui a prévalu pendant le Moyen Âge et l'Ancien Régime, mais elle est maintenant abandonnée depuis les travaux de Godefroid Kurth. Le Liber est par ailleurs fautif, car il attribue deux pères distincts à Marcomir, père de Pharamond, et Sunnon, alors que les textes romains attestent qu'ils étaient frères5.

Sans préciser si Théodomir est le père de Clodion, Godefroid Kurth considère Théodemir comme un mérovingien6. Enfin selon Christian Settipani, les éléments onomastiques qui composent les prénoms de Richomer et Théodemer se retrouvent parmi les descendants de Clodion (Mérovée, Childéric, Théodoric, Clodomir), ce qui n'est pas le cas du groupe Marcomir-Sunno-Pharamond5.

[a large tree diagram is here, which cannot be copied into Geni]

Notes
↑ Le fait qu'il soit un franc rhénan ne fait cependant pas l'unanimité. Les sources primaires ne semblent pas préciser que Théodomir est un Franc rhénan. Seuls Michel Rouche et Christian Settipani l'affirment, mais on ne sait à partir de quelles sources.
Références
Rouche 1996, p. 107.
Settipani 1996, p. 28-29
Riché et Périn 1996, p. 321, notice « Theudomer ».
Werner 1984, p. 298.
Settipani 1996, p. 29
Kurth 1896, p. 152.
Kurth 1896, p. 103
Settipani 1996, p. 27
Sources primaires
« Nous lisons aussi dans les tables consulaires que Théodomir, roi des Francs, fils de feu Richomer, et sa mère Ascyla ont été égorgés. On rapporte également que Clodion, qui était alors un homme capable et très noble dans sa nation, a été roi des Francs » (Grégoire de Tours, Histoire des Francs, Livre 2, chapitre 9).

« Pendant longtemps, ils (les Francs) ont refusé avec leurs ducs de subir des dominations étrangères ... Ensuite, les ducs ayant disparu, on créa de nouveau chez les Francs des rois qu'on prit dans la famille de ceux qui existaient auparavant ... Les Francs qui cherchaient activement à choisir un roi chevelu ... en nommèrent un qu'ils prennent dans la descendance de Priam, de Frigas et de Francion. Il se nommait Theudemar ; c'était le fils de ce Ricimer, le personnage tué par les Romains ... Il eut comme successeur son fils Clodion » (Frédégaire, Chronique, 2-9).

Sources secondaires
Godefroid Kurth, Clovis, Tours, Alfred Mame et fils, 1896, XXIV-630 p. (présentation en ligne [archive], lire en ligne [archive])
Réédition : Godefroid Kurth, Clovis, le fondateur, Paris, Tallandier, coll. « Biographie », 2005, XXX-625 p. (ISBN 2-84734-215-X)
Karl Ferdinand Werner, Les Origines, avant l'an mil, Livre de Poche, coll. « Histoire de France (sous la direction de Jean Favier) », 1984 (réimpr. 1992) [d%C3%A9tail des éditions] (ISBN 2-253-06203-0).
Christian Settipani, Les Ancêtres de Charlemagne - Addenda [archive], Paris, 1990.
Pierre Riché et Patrick Périn, Dictionnaire des Francs - Les temps Mérovingiens, Paris, Bartillat, 1996 (ISBN 2-8410-0008-7).
Christian Settipani, « Clovis, un roi sans ancêtre ? », Gé-Magazine, no 153,‎ octobre 1996 .
Michel Rouche, Clovis, Paris, Éditions Fayard, 1996 (ISBN 2-2135-9632-8).

Translation:
Theodomir (or Theodomer ) was king of the Franks , perhaps Rhenish 1 , 2 , 3 , at the beginning of the 5th century . He is the son of Richomer , a Frankish general in the service of Rome and consul in 384 , and of Ascyla. He was slain with his mother in 421 or 428 .

Biography
The only certainty about Théodomir comes from the account of Grégoire de Tours which mentions that the consular tables speak of Théodomir, king of the Franks and son of Richomer and Ascyla, slaughtered by the Romans with his mother. The date of these events is not certain and the dates of 421 4 , 5 or 428 6 are advanced. Neither Godefroid Kurth nor Michel Rouche gives a date 7.2 .

It may seem curious that the son of a Frankish general in the service of Rome and regularly present at court should become King of the Franks. The situation is not without precedent, however, the case of Mallobaud who was thirty years earlier "count of servants" in the Roman army and "king of the Franks" is proof of this 8 , 9 .

He was then slaughtered by the Romans with his mother in 421 or 428. In his Dictionary of the Franks, Les Temps mérovingiens ( 1996 ), Pierre Riché thinks this: " He supported the cause of the usurpers Constantin III and Jovin ". According to him, Theodomir would have been executed by the Roman power in place (the Emperor Honorius ) for having supported the usurpers 4 . It is possible, but the usurpations of Constantine and Jovin go back to the years 407 to 411 and it is difficult to see why Honorius would have waited ten to twenty years to punish the seditious.

Hypothesis on his descent
According to some authors, Théodomir could be the father of Clodion le Chevelu , but the question is still debated. In this case he would be the great-grandfather of Clovis.

Around 580 , Gregory of Tours declares that Clodion reigns after Theodomir. This story only proves that Gregory of Tours does not know if there is a relationship between Theodomir and Clodion. He writes a century later and certainly had access to contemporary sources, but these documents did not inform him on the subject. We do not know if the succession is immediate or if several years pass between the two kings .
Around 660 , the Chronicle of Frédégaire specifies that Clodion succeeded his father Théodomir. But most historians consider this text to be an interpolation of that of Gregory of Tours, which is most likely. However, there remains a very small possibility that the author of the Chronicle had access to sources distinct from that of Gregory of Tours, as shown by a few anecdotes which do not appear in the History of the Franks . This relationship between Théodomir and Clodion can neither be confirmed nor invalidated 6 .
Finally in 727, the Liber Historiae Francorum recounts that Clodion's father was a Frankish king by the name of Pharamond , unknown to contemporary sources (the first mention of Pharamond dates back to the beginning of the 7th century ) . This is the theory that prevailed during the Middle Ages and the Ancien Régime, but it has now been abandoned since the work of Godefroid Kurth . The Liber is also at fault, because it attributes two distinct fathers to Marcomir, father of Pharamond, and Sunnon, whereas the Roman texts attest that they were brothers 6 .
Without specifying whether Théodomir is Clodion's father, Godefroid Kurth considers Théodemir to be a Merovingian 7 . Finally, according to Christian Settipani, the onomastic elements that make up the first names of Ric ho mer and Théod e mer are found among the descendants of Clodion ( Mér ovée , Childé ric , Théod o ric , Clodo mir ), which is not the case. of the Marco mir -Sunno-Pharamond 6 group .

Notes
References
The fact that he is a Rhenish franc is not unanimous, however. The primary sources do not seem to specify that Theodomir is a Rhenish Franc. Only Michel Rouche and Christian Settipani affirm it, but we do not know from what sources.
Rouche 1996 , p. 107.
Settipani 1996 , p. 28-29
Riché and Périn 1996 , p. 321, note “Theudomer”.
Werner 1984 , p. 298.
Settipani 1996 , p. 29
Kurth 1896 , p. 152.
Kurth 1896 , p. 103
Settipani 1996 , p. 27
Appendices
Primary sources
" We also read in the consular tables that Theodomir, king of the Franks, son of the late Richomer, and his mother Ascyla had their throats cut. It is also reported that Clodion, who was then an able man and very noble in his nation, was king of the Franks ” ( Gregory of Tours , History of the Franks , Book 2 , Chapter 9 ).

" For a long time, they (the Franks) refused with their dukes to undergo foreign dominations ... Then, the dukes having disappeared, kings were created again among the Franks who were taken from the family of those who existed before ... The Franks who were actively seeking to choose a hairy king ... named one whom they took from the descent of Priam, Frigas, and Francion. His name was Theudemar; he was the son of that Ricimer, the personage killed by the Romans...He had as his successor his son Clodion ” ( Fredegaire , Chronicle , 2-9).

Secondary sources
Godefroid Kurth , Clovis , Tours, Alfred Mame and sons,1896, XXIV -630 p. ( online presentation [ archive ] , read online [ archive ] )
Reissue: Godefroid Kurth , Clovis, the founder , Paris, Tallandier , coll. " Biography ",2005, XXX -625 p. ( ISBN 2-84734-215-X )
.
Karl Ferdinand Werner , The Origins: Before the year one thousand , Paris, Le Livre de poche , coll. "History of France",1984( reprint 1996) [ editions detail ] ( ISBN 978-2-253-06203-5 ).
Christian Settipani , The Ancestors of Charlemagne - Addendum [ archive ] , Paris,1990.
Pierre Riché and Patrick Périn , Dictionary of the Franks - Merovingian times , Paris, Bartillat,1996 ( ISBN 2-8410-0008-7 ).
Christian Settipani , “ Clovis, a king without an ancestor? », Gé-Magazine , n ° 153,october 1996 .
Michel Rouche , Clovis , Paris, Editions Fayard ,1996 ( ISBN 2-2135-9632-8 ).

So, only? two primary sources:

Around 580 , Gregory of Tours declares that Clodion reigns after Theodomir. This story only proves that Gregory of Tours does not know if there is a relationship between Theodomir and Clodion. He writes a century later and certainly had access to contemporary sources, but these documents did not inform him on the subject. We do not know if the succession is immediate or if several years pass between the two kings .

" We also read in the consular tables that Theodomir, king of the Franks, son of the late Richomer, and his mother Ascyla had their throats cut. It is also reported that Clodion, who was then an able man and very noble in his nation, was king of the Franks ” ( Gregory of Tours , History of the Franks , Book 2 , Chapter 9 ).

Around 660 , the Chronicle of Frédégaire specifies that Clodion succeeded his father Théodomir. But most historians consider this text to be an interpolation of that of Gregory of Tours, which is most likely. However, there remains a very small possibility that the author of the Chronicle had access to sources distinct from that of Gregory of Tours, as shown by a few anecdotes which do not appear in the History of the Franks . This relationship between Théodomir and Clodion can neither be confirmed nor invalidated

" For a long time, they (the Franks) refused with their dukes to undergo foreign dominations ... Then, the dukes having disappeared, kings were created again among the Franks who were taken from the family of those who existed before ... The Franks who were actively seeking to choose a hairy king ... named one whom they took from the descent of Priam, Frigas, and Francion. His name was Theudemar; he was the son of that Ricimer, the personage killed by the Romans...He had as his successor his son Clodion ” ( Fredegaire , Chronicle , 2-9)

Removing date and place of birth as unsupported:
374 Xaintonge, Gallia Aquitania, Roman Empire [Charente-Maritme, Charente, and Deux-Sèvres, Poitou-Charentes, France]

So, insufficient evidence that Chlodégar, king of the Salian Francs at Cologne and Clovis "the Riparian", King of the Franks are his sons. Cutting that relationship.

Erin Ishimoticha & Jason Scott Wills - please check that you're happy with this.

Eact date of death appears to be nowhere supported either. Removing:15/08/414

Also there seems to be no evidence to prove he was the husband of Argotta of the Franks Disconnecting.

This aunt, Unknown possible but unlikely Daughter of Flavius Richomeres seems to have no solid basis to be attached here either. Based only on this, it seems:

The existence of a Ricimer (or Richomer), a Roman patrician in 457-472, led Helmut Castritius (Germany) to proposed that a daughter of Richomer had married Wallia, King of the Visigoths and grandmother of the Patrician Ricimer

:-)