Alfonso IX has path to Ramesses II

Started by Andrew Riley Schultz on Monday, October 3, 2022
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According to https://www.geni.com/projects/Testing-for-Fake-Medieval-and-Ancient..., I should not have a relationship path to Ramesses II. I do have such a path, through my ancestor Alfonso IX: Alfonso IX, king of Leon and Galicia Does anyone know where the problem lies? Thanks!

Ramesses is haplo E. What's your ethnic background? Some folk are trying to assign a Haplo R to Ramesses which is wrong on so many levels. They have claimed African / Egyptian King Tut but this needs to be re visited.

Duplicated profile of Afonso IX
Alfonso IX de León
www.geni.com/people/Alfonso-IX-de-León/6000000172343943400

First, haplogroup does not matter if the descendant is not from a direct line of males. That means, direct descendants via males and females in the line can have different haplogroups.

Second, ALL the royal families and noble families descendants of European royal families have ethnic mixtures.

There is a great genealogical book about this subject called "People of Colour and the Royals" by Lady Colin Campbell:
https://www.amazon.com/People-Colour-Royals-Colin-Campbell/dp/19161...
https://www.bookdepository.com/People-Colour-Royals-Lady-Colin-Camp...?

Her's Youtube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMlk9gp1WNndfOjs0_1gG3g/videos?

Third, for example, Portuguese and Spanish kings are mix of Goths, Celts, Normands, Saxons, Swabians, Semitics (Hebrews and Arabics) etc etc etc.

Fourth, Alfonso IX, king of Leon and Galicia is NOT showing any kind of ancestry linked to Ramesses II 'The Great', Pharaoh of Egypt

Missing the time when Geni was just a place for the lovers of Genealogy to study our ancestors. Not a site for people discussing politics and ideologies.

Eliane if what you say is true and Alfonso IX is NOT showing any kind of ancestry linked to Ramesses II, (I have no clue if he does or does not), so whom does Ramesses II descend from? Everybody descends from somebody. Right? Please give me a source so I can enlighten myself. We do agree that there was life before the Great Pharoah, life before Egypt. Only haplogroups can go back that far with DNA science. Where does it all start? Africa? Based on the science, what peoples does Ramesses II descend from. What does the science say?

1.Ramesses II 'The Great', Pharaoh of Egypt is my first cousin 27 times removed's wife's
21st great grandfather's wife's 17th great grandfather's wife's great grandfather's wife's
father's wife's uncle's wife's third great grandfather's wife's 11th great grandfather.
2.Alfonso IX, king of Leon and Galicia is my 25th great grandfather.
3/Alfonso IX de León is my 20th great uncle's nephew's wife's daughter's husband's great grandfather.

Hi Vanessa. I will try to answer you.

What I want to say about "Alfonso IX is not connected to Ramesses II" is here at Geni.  I checked that both were not on the blue line. It doesn't show a blue line connection for them (Geni grandparents line).
But this does not guarantee 100% that Afonso can be or not be Ramesses II's descendant. The lines do not go back so long ago.

There are discussions about the (dis)connections of medieval trees with those of the Ancient Period.
For example here:
www.geni.com/people/King-David-of-Israel/4793654215250024782

I am not an expert in Genetics or a specialist in Genealogy, but I can say the "Out of Africa" hypothesis is still the most reliable: 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4844272/
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070509161829.htm

May be changed for the "Levant" (Middle East area) hypothesis in the future. There are some studies going on. Science never stops.

About Ancient Human Diaspora & DNA:
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Diagram-of-the-migratory-histor...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_human_migrations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_human_migrations#/media/File:Ea...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_human_migrations#/media/File:Ma...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_human_migrations#/media/File:Pr...

It's not easy to test Ancient DNA (time & weather deterioration, contaminations, etc), but scientists do their best.  

To research Ramesses II, I would recommend some links below.
About his DNA
https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/were-the-ancient-egyptians-...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_DNA-tested_mummies

Short Chronology of Ancient Egypt  by VV Kubarev (all Pharaohs are listed there)
https://eesa-journal.com/wp-content/uploads/29-56.pdf

Britannica
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Ramses-II-king-of-Egypt

Ancient Egyptian Chronology by Erik Hornung, Rolf Krauss, and David A. Warburton
https://brill.com/view/title/7028

Chronologie des Pharaonischen Ägypten, Mainz am Rhein: Verlag Philipp von Zabern,1997. By Jürgen von Beckerath.

Pharaonic king-lists, annals and day-books : a contribution to the study of the Egyptian sense of history, 1986.  By Donald B. Redford.

Quora for insights
https://www.quora.com/Who-are-the-direct-descendants-of-Egyptian-ph...

I hope my answer will be useful.

I thought that even an in-law path to Ramesses II was inaccurate based on https://www.geni.com/projects/Testing-for-Fake-Medieval-and-Ancient.... There is a separate list of people where you "might have one or more connections to this person through marriages in your ancestry". But Ramesses II is in the first list of people who we're not supposed to have any path to.

Ramesses II 'The Great', Pharaoh of Egypt is my 28th great uncle's 19th great grandfather's wife's 17th great grandfather's wife's great grandfather's wife's father's wife's uncle's wife's third great grandfather's wife's 11th great grandfather.

Afonso IX, rei de Leão is my 19th great grandfather.

Alfonso IX de León is my first cousin thrice removed's wife's sister's husband's sister's husband's 15th great grandfather.

I think it might be possible. Alfonso is in my tree. When my brother had his yDNA tested through Ancestry DNA, he came back with a match to Ramesses and Tut.

Alfonso IX, king of Leon and Galicia is my 25th great grandfather.

Nah!

Missing the time when Geni was just a place for the lovers of Genealogy to study our ancestors. Not a site for people discussing politics and ideologies.

While the Testing for Fake Medieval and Ancient Lines is primarily concerned with direct descent lines, the "in-law" lines that go back to Ramses II are still full of issues. A couple of problematic spots just from a quick scan:
https://www.geni.com/path/Alfonso-IX-king-of-Leon-and-Galicia+is+related+to+Ramesses-II-The-Great-Pharaoh-of-Egypt?from=6000000008477543238&path_type=inlaw&to=6000000000351094247

'A'isha ibn Abdul Aziz seems uncertain. I am not finding any great sources for her existence. Maybe someone with more familiarity with the region could look into it.

I cannot really speak to the Arabic lines, as that is beyond my area of familiarity. But we really need a proper genealogist with knowledge of Islamic lines to take a look at part of the tree. It is currently a serious mess.

The area around Thaalaba ben ibn Imri' al-Qays also seems really sketchy. It's the link from Islamic mythology to the Hellenistic dynasties and once again I am not finding anything resembling a proper genealogical source on these people.

The parents of Orontes II, king of Armenia are up for debate. The mother currently attached to him connects to the Achaemenid Empire in Persia. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orontes_II for a discussion of the scholarship.

The Egyptian generations in the line are also a mess.
I think Abhjar Abhjar and Prince Abar of Kush are just made up.

Not finding anything that claims Shapenuapit, Divine Adoratrice of Amun is the wife of the Pharaoh Necho II.

These are just a few problem spots I found in the lineage. I am sure that there are plenty more if we dig deeper.

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