Catharine GRIFFIN (Curson) - Suspect Parentage from Dates

Started by Craig Andrew Miles on Tuesday, May 9, 2023
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Catharine Griffin Katherine Griffin has her date of birth recorded as 1432.

There are no exact dates for her father Richard Curzon Richard Curzon, of Kedleston or mother Alice Curzon (Willoughby) Alice Curzon

However, the grandparents on her mother's side Robert Willoughby Sir Robert Willoughby and Margaret Griffith Margaret Griffith have dates recorded as 1420 and 1425 making them 12 and 7 when Catharine was born.

The lineage on Catharine's mother's side therefore seems highly suspicious.

Does anyone have a solution?

There’s no birthdate given in the citations for Margaret Griffith. Removed. The birthdate of 1432 for Katherine Curzon is not cited. So far I’m not seeing a howling error.

Found the problem, I think.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Griffin-84

Nicholas Griffin, Esq., de jure 8th Lord Latimer, younger son of Nicholas Griffin of East Carlton, Northamptonshire and Margaret Pilkington, was born 5 June 1426 at Brixworth, Northamptonshire, England,[1][2] and was baptized at the church there that same day.[3]

Nicholas married Katherine Curzon (or Curson), daughter of Richard Curzon, Esq.,[3] and Isabel, widow of John Goddard,[2] before 26 August 1450, as his first wife.[1]


She’s the Croxall line, not the Kedleston line.

www.geni.com/media/proxy?media_id=6000000194446148825&size=large

Disconnecting Katherine Griffin and Ann Twyford as daughters of Alice Curzon & Richard Curzon, of Kedleston

Well, it looks like Katherine’s origins could be problematic. I’ll have to try & find what Richardson published.

https://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p750.htm#... Identifies her father Richard as the same person as Richard Curzon, of Kedleston snippet above, but with an earlier wife.

But I see conversation suggesting she fits better chronologically with his father who had 27 children … or with the man of many titles.

https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/DpJmUZ-PeJk/m/...

Jeff Duvall says that Sir John Curzon ("of the white head") is "the better candidate . . . on chronological grounds" for the father of Catherine Curzon, wife of Nicholas Griffin; i.e. better than Richard Curzon who was her father according to CP 7:457. I don't follow Jeff's reasoning since he knows of "no other identifying information" for Richard.

In fact there was a Richard Curzon, living in 1432 and dead by 1451, who was esquire of the body to Henry VI; a retainer of and chamerlain to Richard Beauchamp, Earl, of Warwick; Captain of Sandgate Castle in 1432; John Talbot's Lieutenant of Chateau Gaillard, 1435, and of Rouen the next year, and the governor of Honfleur who surrendered it to Count Dunois in 1450. He married Isabel ____ and was rewarded for his services by the farm of all mines in Devon and Cornwall. See, e.g., CPR 1441-1446 pp. 178, 203, 351, 1446-1452 p. 501.

This Richard seems chronologically well suited to be the father-in-law of Nicholas Griffin (1426-1482).

Absent knowledge of where CP got the information that Catherine's father was named Richard, it also seems possible that Catherine was one of the many unnamed children of John "of the white head." Burke's presumably got this from J. Charles Cox's _Notes on the Churches of Derbyshire_ (1875-79) 3:179, where it is presented purely as a speculation.

Richardson does not mention the parents of Katherine Griffin father Richard Curzon, Esq., Captain of Sandgate Castle & Honfleur or his death date, but it seems a strange 50 year gap between siblings to equate him as the same man as Richard Curzon, of Kedleston

So keeping them separate.

It was a good question, Craig Andrew Miles

OK thanks Erica Howton

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