Johanna Catharina Tol SM/PROG - Hendrik Fortman & Caatje Hottentotin /Johanna Catharina Mauritz Marriage Banns 1754 - 8 years after baptising their 4 children and 2 years after baptising their 5th child

Started by Patric Tariq Mellet on Sunday, August 20, 2023
Problem with this page?

Participants:

Profiles Mentioned:

Related Projects:

Showing all 15 posts

I have posted t the MEDIA section, conclusive proof that Hendrik Fortman aka Voortman's wife Johanna Catharina Mauritz aka Caatje Hottentotin is the mother of Susanna and Anna Maria Bapt Feb 1747, Jan and Hendrik bapt March 1747, These four children are clearly being baptised long after they were born, so these are not their birth dates. There is no record of their birthdates. Geesje was baptised in 1752. And then Anna Catharina in 1756, two years before and two years after the marriage between Hendrik and Johanna Catharina.

There is no evidence to suggest that Johanna Catharina is "Johanna Tol" born in 1700, nor "Tol Smit" as some records have it. All of the documentation available does not use "Voortman" - all use "Fortman".There is also no evidence as to where the name "Mauritz or Maurits" originates as it appears only when written in the marriage register in 1754 and on the baptism certificate of Anna Catharina.

There is no evidence of when she was born nor when the name "Mauritz" first came into use. There is evidence that Caatje Hottentotin and Catharina Mauritz Hottentotin is the same person, as per the baptism record of the child born after she married Henrik Fortman - Anna Catharina.

Four years after formally marrying Hendrik Fortman, Johanna Catharina is noted as the widow of Hendrik Fortman when she married Michiel Hofman in 1758.

I have loaded the various digitised copies of the documents under media.

"South Africa, Dutch Reformed Church Registers (Cape Town Archives), 1660-1970 ", database with images, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6KTB-3B1L )

Patric Tariq Mellet thankyou. I missed this when you posted it last year. Are you happy with how it appears now?

IN FFY https://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/g16/p16166.htm#c16166.5 Delia Robertson cites these two sources:

The name of Catharina appeared as Johanna Catharina Tol van der Kaep in the cited publication(s.)

  • Delia Robertson, translator, Cape Melting Pot - the role and status of the mixed population at the Cape, 1652-1795 (Johannesburg, South Africa: Delia Robertson, 2005) Translated from Groep Sonder Grense, Die Rol en Status van die Gemengde Bevolking aan die Kaap 1652-1795, by H.F. Heese, M.A., PH.D , p. 98. & p.193: Johanna Catharin (Tol) van der Kaa. Hereinafter cited as Cape Melting Pot.
  • Dr. J. Hoge, Personalia of the Germans at the Cape, 1652-1806, Archives Year Book for South African History (Cape Town: Government Printer, Union of South Africa, 1946), p. 441. Hereinafter cited as Personalia.

Hi Sharon

I initially received one message from the anonymous "P" which had a garbled and erroneous set of remarks concerning DNA using questionable language, to which I commented critically. I also affirmed that Johanna Tol (Tolle.... mother Adriana) is a totally different person to Catharina Mauritz van der Kaap /van Cabo). I did this long before the anonymous "P" got involved with this subject. I had not seen any other of the research claimed to be done by the anonymous "P" - research done long ago by others as we all know.

Subsequently "P" has gone on a tirade of abuse flooding me with 34 emails. This should not be allowed on GENI as it is an abuse.

Delia Robertson as I long pointed out has comprehensively summarized what a range of documentation has produced on the subject using accepted academic research referencing. What is great about Delia's approach on First Fifty Years is that she tracks the range of different projections/names of the subject, erroneous and correct, as it tracks enquiry, and does not censor out documentation that we may disagree with. This gives us a global picture and from this the following arises:

The confusion is cleared up around who Johanna Tol (Tolle) daughter of Adriana was and that this person has nothing to do with our subject. Delia covers Johanna Tol (Tolle) in her surname index of "First Fifty Years". Delia also shows how the name Johanna Catharina emerged and separates out the nickname Caatje and that her identification as "Hottentotin" becomes affixed to her name Catharina Mauritz van der Kaap/ van Cabo.

For a number of decades we have all been aware of the baptism certificates of the adult baptisms too. Delia summarizes these well using accepted academic protocols of research. There has never been confusion. The problem arises when someone created a locked embedded record on GENI of Johanna Tol (Tolle) daughter of Adriana Tolle and made her the wife of Hendrik Fortman/Voortman. This then contaminates genealogical records such as mine because it automatically then attaches a host of non-family ancestry to my name and that of my family. It is this that I refer to as genealogical quackery. I also see the unscientific use of terms like Khoisan and Bantu to replace Southern African mtdna and Sub-Saharan mtdna as a form of DNA quackery, regardless from where it emanates. We do need to be careful about use of terms.

I the interest of collegiality I suggest that people should not be anonymous when engaging in debates and siscourse aimed at improving the content. This is just disrespectful.

The name Heinrich Voortman van Hamburg was changed at the Cape where the VOC had a policy of Dutchification of German and French names - hence Hendrik Fortman.

When making a genealogical entry on GENI we should differentiate between nicknames/ethnic labels and use the formal names. In this case noting in brackets or by some other means the nickname and ethnic-lable. Delia Robertson does this well: She uses Catharina Mauritz van der Kaap and Heinrich Voortman.

The name "Mauritz"(Maurits) suggests that Catje may have been born of a relationship between a slave of this name and a Khoe mother. At the time of Catje being in the Roode Zand (Waverin) area the term "Baster-Hottentot" was being used because many of the Cochouqua Khoe women had given birth to children fathered by the enslaved labourers on farms. There is one record of an enslaved man by the name of Jacob Mauritz but no evidence to link this person to Catje. There were two other Maurits men, Europeans, but again no linkages. The naming patterns where Khoe were given European names suggest many reasons - cohabitation one of them. The history of this time cannot be approached in a mechanical manner. All that we do know is that there is an indication in records that the name Mauritz and the vdK identification denoting a slavery link is evident. The marriage data is clear as to the names that should be used.

The names of Johanna Tol (Tolle) and Adriana Tolle should be removed on Geni from any association with Hendrik and Caatje and their children. GENI should use the names recorded when they were married and the variants, nicknames and ethnic-label should be noted as such. This would e the sound manner in which to proceed. The long chain of abusive tirade by the anonymous "P" should not appear in GENI as it does. Nowhere in my own remarks do I make any remark that can be labelled as reverse-racism.

Regards

Patric Tariq Mellet

Patric -on the point of 'P' please point me to the abusive remarks. When did it occur - last year or recently? Did they happen in a public Discussion (which I can check) or a private message? (Which you'd need to forward to me for me to be able to read and understand what you're saying). I don't understand the reverse-racism comment without that.
You can also report P to Customer service, if you feel abused.

That aside
- you need to distinguish between Geni's and FFY's intentions.
Geni is crowdsouricing data into a one world tree. This has to allow for data entry fields that are accessible to the hobbyists from different countries - who are typically not trained researchers - because it is their modern trees - as yet not recorded - we're trying to source.

Delia is creating an archive of sourced data that is becoming invaluable for SA research - but her intention is not popular genealogy. She's a historian. We defer to her research in this area all the time. If we find docs that we don't see on her site yet, we try to alert her to them - because hers is the site that is the historical one, and we want her careful eye to analyse the data and have it there for posterity. She isn't trying to create and curate a dynamic archive of the exponentially greater size that Geni is. Her focus is static quality at the cost of quantity. We need this.

Geni, on the other hand, is sacrificing perfect precision immediately, in the pusuit of acquiring the quantity of data that can link modern descendents to each other and reveal relationship paths that history has never been able to see before. The ability to crowd-source that the internet has made feasible, and collaboration has made possible, has revolutionised genealogy. The family data this generation has been able to to collate, compare and link is unprecedented.
But the draw backs are that it relies on time to skew the data towards greater and greater precision. So "This then contaminates genealogical records such as mine" misunderstands that Geni is all of our collaborative projective, and even the tree line you are calling 'yours' is likely to be the ancestry of many others on Geni's one world tree too.

As a result, it looks like a while back a user may have merged the Johanna Toll that we know for sure Adriana Toll gave birth to as a widow (because we have a baptism doc)
into the Johanna Catharina Tol van der Kaep as cited by Hees and Hoge - (for which we have no primary doc evidence). It's an easy mistake, even though it does create a birds-nest, and we did lose for a while the fact that these could not have been the same woman, but sooner or later someone starts the search for primary source docs and unravels it. As happened here.

My point about Delia's two references to the person you're calling 'Johanna Catharina Mauritz' as having been called 'Johanna Catharina Tol van der Kaep' on some occasion, is a genuine query - not a covert criticism - about what we know to make us so sure that Hees and Hoge didn't make exactly the same error as our user did?

Without the primary docs - which Delia obviously hasn't found yet - how do we know that the name 'Johanna Catharina Tol van der Kaep' wasn't Hees and Hoge also conflating Adriana's Tol's illegitimate (and possibly 'half caste') baby with the person documented as 'Catherina Mauritz'?

As far as I can see, Catherina Maurits is never called Joanna in any documentation that we can check against, and there's absolutely no reason to connect her with the Tol surname at all. As far as I can see, again, there are no other Tols besides Adriana in the Cape at all.

Again - the question is offered as an interesting research question to fellow researchers - not as a way of nitpicking for errors.

On your points about how Geni should use its naming fields:

Many users don't put nicknames anywhere but in the aka field. If they're shown in the naming fields - we tend to put it in the middle name field and use single inverted commas to indicate that this isn't the legal name, but one the person is aften known as.

The present naming was done by me when I followed your research instructions - as I could see the accuracy of them. I was simply trying to fit your description above "Johanna Catharina Mauritz aka Caatje Hottentotin" into the Geni naming fields. I am equally happy to put

  • Catharina in the first name field; and
  • Mauritz into the middle name field (assuming its a patronymic in this case) and
  • Cabo de Goede Hoop into her birth surname field.

Just let me know your and the other managers' preferences.

(All the versions she has been known as are also logged in the aka field.) Typically - but not always if we have reason to think it's a clerical interpolation or error - we try and defer to the earliest legal name we can find documented.

Showing all 15 posts

Create a free account or login to participate in this discussion