Isabel (Elizabeth) de Gaunt - Am I Missing Something?

Started by Private User on Tuesday, August 22, 2023
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She's supposedly my 22nd g-grandmother, in line with Charlemagne -- but I see no evidence here of her existence.

She was originally entered into the record as "Matilda", so why/how was her name changed to "Isabel (Elizabeth)"?

MATILDA de Gand. Her parentage and marriage are noted in Domesday Descendants[997]. m WILLIAM de Welle of Wells and Claxby, Norfolk, son of WALTER FitzRademer & his wife ---

I think this proves she did exist, but the name is wrong (which is confusing).

According to Medlands, the only child of Matilda de Gand and WILLIAM de Welle of Wells and Claxby, Norfolk, was:

ISABEL (m. ROBERT de Tattershall, son of HUGH Brito [de Tattershall] & his wife)

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/engunttz.htm#_Toc51670251

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3T-Z.htm#Ro...

Isabel and her husband had five Tattershall children: Philip, John, Robert, Roger, and Walter.

Here is Isabel, the daughter of Matilda de Gant and William of Welles and Claxby. But she's been assigned the wrong mother (Alice van Gant, Matilda/"Isabel" 's sister).

Isabel de Welles

According to Medlands (linked above) Robert de Tattershall m. ISABEL, daughter of WILLIAM FitzWalter de Welle of Wells and Claxby, Norfolk & his wife Matilda de Gand ([1134/35]-after 1212)

Somehow Matilda de Gant was renamed "Isabel" and her only child, a daughter named Isabel who married Robert de Tattershall -- was attributed to her sister, Alice (van Gant) de Mowbray.

Alice never married any Tattershall. She only married Ilbert de Lacy and Roger de Mowbray.

Asking again: Why is Matilda here under discussion named "Isabel" on Geni?

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL1.htm...

And why is her daughter shown here as her niece?

Isabel de Welles

WILLIAM de Welle of Wells and Claxby, Norfolk (-before 1198). m MATILDA de Gand, daughter of WALTER de Gand & his wife Mathilde de Penthièvre. Her parentage and marriage are noted in Domesday Descendants[655]. William & his wife had children:

i) ISABEL ([1134/35]-after 1212). "Roberto filio Hugonis et Rogero fratre eius, Isabella uxore Roberti filii Hugonis, Philippo et Roberto et Rogero filiis eius, Waltero filio Walteri filio Hugonis, Gaufrido capellano" witnessed the undated charter under which "Willielmus de Dentuna" donated property at "Langhage" to Kirkstead abbey[656]. "Robertus filius Hugonis" confirmed the donation of "bosco…Langhage" by "Willielmus de Dentuna frater meus" to Kirkstead abbey by undated charter, witnessed by "Rogero filio Hugonis, Isabella uxore mea…"[657]. The Rotuli de Dominabus of 1185 records that "uxor Roberti filii Hugonis…filia Willelmi filii Walteri de Welle" was 50 years old and had "x pueros", and in a later passage names her “Elisabeth que fuit uxor Roberti filii Hugonis” and her property "in Meltesbi…de maritagio suo, de feodo Willelmi filii Walteri" whose daughter he had married, with land "de honore Peverelli…terra…de Toleshunt"[658]. The Testa de Nevill records that in 1212 "Robertus de Tateshala" held land "in capite de domino rege in Candluobi" in Lincolnshire which "Elysabet mater predicti Roberti…tenet in dote"[659]. m ROBERT de Tattershall, son of HUGH Brito [de Tattershall] & his wife --- (-after 1185).

B. EARLS of LINCOLN 1147/1148 (GAND)

WALTER van Gent, son of GILBERT van Gent Lord of Folkingham & his wife Alice de Montfort-sur-Risle (-1139, bur Bardney Abbey). The Stemma fundatoris of Bardney Abbey names “Giselbrictum et Walterum” as children of ”Gislebrictus de Gaunt” & his wife[943]. A manuscript genealogy of the Gant family names “Walterum et Robertum” as sons of “Giselbertus de Gaunt…[et] uxorem Aliciam de Montfort”[944]. ”Walterus de Gant, filius et hæres Gisilberti de Gant” restored Bardney Abbey in 1115, witnessed by “Roberto de ---, Willielmo nepote meo constabulario Cestriæ, Willielmo de Mandevill…”[945]. The 1130 Pipe Roll records "Walts de Gant" in Yorkshire, Northumberland[946]. "Walter de Gaunt" donated the phylactery which "Baldwin sororius suus sent him from Jerusalem" to Bridlington Priory by undated charter, witnessed by "Matilda his wife"[947]. "Walter de Gaunt" founded Bridlington priory, with the assent of Henry I King of England, by undated charter, witnessed by "Alan de Percy, Eustace FitzJohn, Jordan Paganel…Walter de Percy…"[948]. A charter of Edward II King of England confirmed donations to Bridlington priory, including by "Walter de Ganto" of "land in Brenlintona"[949]. He became a monk at Bardney Abbey.

m MATHILDE de Penthièvre, daughter of ETIENNE de Bretagne Comte de Penthièvre & his wife Havise de Guingamp. A manuscript genealogy of the Gant family records that “Walterus”, son of “Giselbertus de Gaunt”, married “Matildam filiam comitis Stephani Britanniæ”, bringing “Swaldale” as dowry[950]. “Matildis filia consulis Stephani Britanniæ, uxor Walteri de Gaunt” donated property to Bridlington Priory by undated charter[951].

Walter & his wife had [seven] children:

1. GILBERT de Gand (Bridlington [1120]-1156, bur [Bridlington Priory]). The Stemma fundatoris of Bardney Abbey names “Gilebertum…et Robertum fratrem eius” as sons of ”Walterus”, adding that Gilbert was Earl of Lincoln[952]. He was created Earl of Lincoln by King Stephen in 1147/48. "Gilbert Earl of Lincoln" donated "land in Spetona" to Bridlington Priory by undated charter, witnessed by "Geoffrey de Gaunt, Robert de Gaunt, Philip de Kyma dapifero…"[953]. “Gilbertus comes Lincolnie” chose his burial in the church of St Mary, Bridlington by charter dated to [1150/56], witnessed by “Gaufrido fratre meo…”[954]. Robert of Torigny records the death in 1156 of "Gislebertus de Gant"[955]. m as her first husband, ROHESE de Clare, daughter of RICHARD FitzGilbert de Clare & his wife Agnes [Alicia] of Chester. A manuscript genealogy of the Gant family records that “Gilbertus”, son of “Walterus”, married “Roesiam comitissam Lincolniæ”, adding that she married secondly "Roberto dapifero" by whom she was mother of "Roesia de Bulington nupta Simoni de Kyma"[956]. She married secondly ([1157/63]) Robert FitzRobert. Gilbert & his wife had one child:

a) ALICE de Gand (-1185, bur Bridlington). Robert of Torigny records that "filiam eius unicam [Gisleberti de Gant]" married "Symon iuvenis filius comitis Symonis"[957]. The Stemma fundatoris of Bardney Abbey names “Aliciam” as the daughter of ”Gilbertus”, adding that she married “Simon de Monteforti comes Noramtoniæ”[958]. A manuscript genealogy of the Gant family names “Aliciam” as the daughter of “Gilbertus”, adding that she married “Simoni de sancto Licio, comiti Huntingtoniæ et Northamptoniæ”, died childless, and was buried “apud Bredlinton”[959]. "A. comitissa Norhamtunie filia Gilleberti comes Lincolnie" confirmed the donation of land in Scampton to Kirkstead abbey by "Radulfus filius Gilleberti", for the health of "sponsi mei Simonis comitis", by charter dated to early in the reign of King Henry II[960]. m SIMON de Senlis Earl of Huntingdon and Northampton, son of SIMON de Senlis Earl of Huntingdon and Northampton & his wife Isabelle de Beaumont ([1138]-Jun 1184, bur St Andrew's Priory).

2. GEOFFREY de Gand (-[1150/56]). “Gilbertus de Gant” donated property to the canons of Thornton by charter dated to [1139/47], witnessed by “Gaufrido et Roberto et Baldewino fratribus Gilberti de Gant…”[961]. "Gilbert Earl of Lincoln" donated "land in Spetona" to Bridlington Priory by undated charter, witnessed by "Geoffrey de Gaunt, Robert de Gaunt, Philip de Kyma dapifero…"[962]. “Gilbertus comes Lincolnie” chose his burial in the church of St Mary, Bridlington by charter dated to [1150/56], witnessed by “Gaufrido fratre meo…”[963].

3. ROBERT de Gand (-[1191/92], bur Vaudey Abbey). “Gilbertus de Gant” donated property to the canons of Thornton by charter dated to [1139/47], witnessed by “Gaufrido et Roberto et Baldewino fratribus Gilberti de Gant…”[964]. The Stemma fundatoris of Bardney Abbey names “Gilebertum…et Robertum fratrem eius” as sons of ”Walterus”, adding that Gilbert was Earl of Lincoln[965]. "Gilbert Earl of Lincoln" donated "land in Spetona" to Bridlington Priory by undated charter, witnessed by "Geoffrey de Gaunt, Robert de Gaunt, Philip de Kyma dapifero…"[966]. The Red Book of the Exchequer refers to "Robertus de Gant v m" in Yorkshire in [1161/62][967]. “Robertus de Gaunt et Aeliz Paganella uxor sua et Avicia filia eorum” donated property to the hospital of St John of Jerusalem by charter dated to [1166/77], witnessed by “…Henrico de Gaunt…”[968]. The Red Book of the Exchequer, listing scutage payments in [1190/91], records "Robertus de Gaunt" paying "xxxiv l v s iv d" in Lincolnshire[969]. A manuscript genealogy of the Gant family records that “Roberto filio Walteri” succeeded his niece in the Gand inheritance, died in 1192 and was buried “apud Vawdye”[970]. “Robertus de Gaunt, filius Walteri de Gaunt” confirmed donations of property to Bridlington Priory by “Walterus de Gaunt pater meus et Gilbertus de Gaunt comes Lincolniæ frater meus”, by undated charter[971]. m firstly as her second husband, ALICE Paynell, widow of RICHARD de Courcy, daughter of WILLIAM Paynell de Drax & his second wife Avice de Rumilly. An undated manuscript relating to Croxton Abbey, Leicestershire records that “Aviciam de Romely…unicam filiam Aliciam” married ”Roberto de Ganth”[972]. The primary source which confirms her first marriage has not been identified. “Avicia de Romelli” notified her donation to the canons of Drax, for the soul of “Willelmi Paganelli mariti mei”, with the consent of “domini Roberti de Gant et Adelicie filie mee uxoris eiusdem Roberti”, by charter dated to [1147/52], witnessed by “Robertus de Gant et Adelicia Paganella uxor eius et Adelicia soror Roberti de Gant…”[973]. “R de Gaunt” donated property to Bridlington convent, for the souls of “comitis Gilberti…et…Adeliz uxoris mee et Aviz filie mee” by charter dated to [1156/75][974]. “Robertus de Gaunt et Aeliz Paganella uxor sua et Avicia filia eorum” donated property to the hospital of St John of Jerusalem by charter dated to [1166/77], witnessed by “…Henrico de Gaunt…”[975]. A charter of King Richard I dated 7 Sep 1189 confirmed donations to Vaudey abbey among which by “Robertus de Gant et Alizia Painell uxor eius”[976]. m secondly ([1189?]) as her first husband, GUNNORA de Albini Brito, daughter of RALPH de Albini Brito & his wife Sibylla de Valoignes ([1177?]-). A charter of King Richard I dated 7 Sep 1189 confirmed donations to Vaudey abbey among which by “Roberti de Gant et Gundredæ uxoris eius”[977]. Domesday Descendants names Gunnora, wife first of Robert de Gand and secondly of Nicholas de Stuteville, as the youngest of the three daughters of Ralph de Albini Brito and his wife[978]. From a chronological point of view, this appears tight, but is consistent with other information related in the present section. The Gand/Stuteville connection appears confirmed by the following document: "Gillebertus de Gant" [Gunnora’s son by her first marriage] confirmed the donation of land at Barton on Humber to Rufford monastery, Nottinghamshire, for the souls of "patris mei Roberti de Gant et matris mee Gunwar de Gant", by charter dated to the late 12th century [?], witnessed by "Nicolao de Stuteville…" [Gunnora’s second husband?][979]. She married secondly (after [1191/92]) Nicholas [III] de Stuteville. Robert & his first wife had one child:

a) AVICE de Gand . An undated manuscript relating to Croxton Abbey, Leicestershire names “Aviciam” as daughter of “Roberto de Ganth” and his wife Alice, adding that she married ”Roberto filio Roberti Arding de Bristow”, by whom she had “filium…Mauricium” who died childless, leaving “Andreæ Luterel per matrem suam, quæ fuit de parentelli Paynellorum” as his heir[980]. “R de Gaunt” donated property to Bridlington convent, for the souls of “comitis Gilberti…et…Adeliz uxoris mee et Aviz filie mee” by charter dated to [1156/75][981]. “Robertus de Gaunt et Aeliz Paganella uxor sua et Avicia filia eorum” donated property to the hospital of St John of Jerusalem by charter dated to [1166/77], witnessed by “…Henrico de Gaunt…”[982]. m as his second wife, ROBERT [de Berkeley], son of ROBERT FitzHarding & his wife Eva --- (-[1195]).

Robert & his second wife had one child:

b) GILBERT de Gand ([1191/92?]-1242). ”Gilbertus de Gaunt, filius Roberti de Gaunt” confirmed donations to Bardney Abbey by “Gilebrictus de Gaunt actavus meus et uxor eius Aliz…de Muntfort, et Walterus de Gaunt avus meus, et comes Gilbertus avunculus meus, et Rob. de Gaunt pater meus” by undated charter[983]. Titular [Earl of Lincoln]. "Gillebertus de Gant" confirmed the donation of land at Barton on Humber to Rufford monastery, Nottinghamshire, for the souls of "patris mei Roberti de Gant et matris mee Gunwar de Gant", by charter dated to the late 12th century, witnessed by "Nicolao de Stuteville…"[984]. m ---. The name of Gilbert’s wife is not known. Gilbert & his wife had three children:

i) ROBERT de Gaunt (-before 1242). The Stemma fundatoris of Bardney Abbey names “Robertum et Gilbertum” as the children of ”Gilbertus”, adding that Robert predeceased his father[985].

ii) GILBERT de Gaunt of Folkingham, Lincolnshire (-Folkingham 5 Jan 1274). The Stemma fundatoris of Bardney Abbey names “Robertum et Gilbertum” as the children of ”Gilbertus”[986]. A manuscript genealogy of the Gant family records that “Gilbertum”, son of “Gilbertus”, died “1274 Non Jan apud Falkingham” and was buried “apud Bridlington”[987]. Inquisitions after a writ dated 26 Jan "2 Edw I" following the death of "Gilbert de Gaunt" name “Gilbert de Gaunt [his son and heir] is his next and of full age...aged 24 and more...25”, and notes that he had given Hundemanby to “Gilbert his son...in marriage with Lora de Balyolo”[988]. m ---. The name of Gilbert’s wife is not known. Gilbert & his wife had four children:

(a) MARGARET . The Stemma fundatoris of Bardney Abbey records that ”Gilbertus”, son of Gilbert, had “duas sorores…Margaretam et Nicholaam”, adding that Margaret married “Will. de Kardestone” and that they were parents of “Rogerum”, whose son was “Willelmum”[989]. Her son Roger de Kerdeston was summoned to Parliament in 1332 whereby he is held to have become Lord Kerdeston[990]. m WILLIAM de Kerdeston of Kerdiston, co. Norfolk, son of ---.

(b) GILBERT de Gaunt ([1249]-1298). The Stemma fundatoris of Bardney Abbey records that “Gilbertus filius eius” succeeded on the death of ”Gilbertus”, son of Gilbert[991]. Inquisitions after a writ dated 26 Jan "2 Edw I" following the death of "Gilbert de Gaunt" name “Gilbert de Gaunt [his son and heir] is his next and of full age...aged 24 and more...25”, and notes that he had given Hundemanby to “Gilbert his son...in marriage with Lora de Balyolo”[992]. A charter dated 17 Jun 1278 records the quitclaim of "Gilbert de Gaunt son and heir of domini Gilbert de Gaunt" in favour of Bridlington priory[993]. Lord Gaunt. m (before 26 Jan 1274) LORA de Balliol, daughter of HENRY de Balliol of Cavers, co. Roxburgh & his wife Lorette de Valoignes (-1309). The Stemma fundatoris of Bardney Abbey names “Loram, sororem Alexandri de Baliolf” as wife of ”Gilbertus”, son of Gilbert, adding that they died childless[994]. Inquisitions after a writ dated 26 Jan "2 Edw I" following the death of "Gilbert de Gaunt" name “Gilbert de Gaunt [his son and heir] is his next and of full age...aged 24 and more...25”, and notes that he had given Hundemanby to “Gilbert his son...in marriage with Lora de Balyolo”[995].

(c) NICHOLE (-1284, bur Hazlewood Chapel near Tadcaster). The Stemma fundatoris of Bardney Abbey records that ”Gilbertus”, son of Gilbert, had “duas sorores…Margaretam et Nicholaam”, adding that Nichole married “Petrus de Malolaeu” and that they were parents of “Petrum”[996]. m (1273 or before) PIERS de Maulay of Mulgrave and Doncaster, Yorkshire, son of PIERS de Maulay & his second wife --- (22 Jul 1249-6 Sep 1308). He was summoned to Parliament in 1295 whereby he is held to have become Lord Mauley[997].

(d) JULIENNE (before 1258-after 1311). The Stemma fundatoris of Bardney Abbey records that ”Gilbertus”, son of Gilbert, had “tertio soror Juliana”, who died unmarried[998].

iii) GUNNOR . The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not been identified. m RALPH de Sucheville, son of ---.

4. BALDWIN de Gand . “Gilbertus de Gant” donated property to the canons of Thornton by charter dated to [1139/47], witnessed by “Gaufrido et Roberto et Baldewino fratribus Gilberti de Gant…”[999].

5. ALICE de Gand . “Avicia de Romelli” notified her donation to the canons of Drax, for the soul of “Willelmi Paganelli mariti mei”, with the consent of “domini Roberti de Gant et Adelicie filie mee uxoris eiusdem Roberti”, by charter dated to [1147/52], witnessed by “Robertus de Gant et Adelicia Paganella uxor eius et Adelicia soror Roberti de Gant…”[1000]. “Aliz de Gant” donated property to Pontefract Priory, for the souls of “prioris domini mei Ilberti de Lascy” and with the consent of “Henricus de Lascy”, by undated charter[1001]. Her second marriage is confirmed by the undated charter under which “Rogerus de Molbrai” confirmed the donation of property to Pontefract Priory by “uxor mea…pro anima prioris domini sui Ilberti de Lasci”, witnessed by “Willielmus Peverel…Turgis de Molbray…”[1002]. It is dated by an undated charter under which Roger de Mowbray and his wife Alice (Ilbert’s widow) donated property to the abbey of St. Mary, Hood, witnessed by William “decanus” who was consecrated bishop of Durham 20 Jun 1143, thus providing the latest date for the document[1003]. “Alicia de Gaunt uxor Rogeri de Mubray” donated property to Fountains Abbey by charter dated 13 Apr 1176 which names “filiorum meorum Nigelli et Roberti”[1004]. m firstly ILBERT de Lacy, son of ROBERT de Lacy & his wife Matilda --- (-[Feb 1141/May 1143], bur [Pontefract Priory]). m secondly ([Feb 1141/20 Jun 1143]) ROGER de Mowbray, son of NELE d'Aubigny & his second wife Gundred de Gournay (-[late 1187/1188]).

6. [AGNES . A charter of King Henry I confirmed the foundation and possessions of Bridlington priory, including the donation of "ecclesiam de Wicheforda" made by "Willielmus de Moion et uxor eius Agnes"[1005]. The parentage of Agnes is not known. Maxwell-Lyte suggests "with some confidence" that she was the daughter of Walter de Gant & his wife[1006]. He bases this on the possession by Gilbert de Gand of Whichford, Warwickshire (then in Northamptonshire) in 1086, Gilbert’s son Walter’s foundation of the priory at Bridlington, and the donation by William de Mohun and Agnes his wife of the church of Whichford to Bridlington. m WILLIAM de Mohun, son of WILLIAM de Mohun & his wife --- (-[1155]).]

7. MATILDA de Gand . Her parentage and marriage are noted in Domesday Descendants[1007]. m WILLIAM de Welle of Wells and Claxby, Norfolk, son of WALTER FitzRademer & his wife ---.

According to Medlands, Isabel (Welles) Tattershall is the only daughter of William de Welle of Welles and MATILDA de Gand.

It was changed by someone in 2013 without documentation nor a discussion before changing!

Thank you, Suzan, I didn't notice that (will take a look now).

Just a minor difference, but I'm seeing 1/8/2014 as the actual time of the change (a couple of months before the profile was MP'd).

And you're right about there being no prior discussion or proof given to support the change.

I changed her name back to Matilda.

Thank you for your efforts.

Thank you Erica Howton , could you also take a look at Isabel de Welles (her daughter, not her niece)?

Also Erica Howton do we have proof for Robert FitzWilliam de Welles as her son?

This is supposedly my line to Charlemagne, but I don't want inaccurate connections. I didn't find any evidence for him, but I may have overlooked something.

I just merged Isabel de Welles.

I’m following a lightly sourced tree at the moment,

https://ancestorium.com/tng/getperson.php?personID=I055334&tree=1

citing http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/british/ww/welles01.htm

Detached Alice de Mowbray as wife of William FitzWalter, of Wells and Claxby which leaves him with extra sons Solomon de Welles & Walter de Welles

This by the way is where the name “Isabel / Elizabeth de Gaunt” comes from. A mixup with her daughter?

https://mckaystevens.us/genealogy/getperson.php?personID=I40944&tree=1


Stirnet does not identify Matilda / Maud’s first name.

https://www.stirnet.com/genie/data/british/ww/welles01.php

  • A. William FitzWalter of Wells and Claxby (d before 1198) m. ?? de Gant (dau of Walter de Gant)
    • i. Robert FitzWilliam de Welle (d before 12.1206) m. Maud
      • a. William de Welle (d 1241-2) m. (by 1207) Emma de Grainsby (a 09.1226, dau of William de Grainsby)

What primary source(s) do Stirnet cite on their exclusive, inaccessible website, to prove this profile? Robert FitzWilliam de Welles

Shouldn't his Geni profile cite a primary source proving his existence? That seems to be the standard here, especially for historical and Medieval genealogy.

I also question the other siblings except for Isabel (Welles) Tattershal, which is adequately proven. However for me personally the main concern is that my alleged line to Charlemagne goes through the unproven profile for Robert FitzWilliam de Welles

In other words, I am not convinced, nor should anyone be without valid evidence.

I have a string of 'ancestors' from

Robert FitzWilliam de Welles → William de Welles, his son → William de Welles, II, his son → John Welles Welles, his son → Sir Richard de Welles Bevill, his son → Robert De Sir Knight of Beyvill de Beville, his son → John de Beville, his son → Thomas de Beville, his son → Sir William Beville, (I), of Chesterton, his son → Katherine Beville, his daughter → Robert Forrest, her son → Thomas Forrest, Esq., his son → Henry Forrest, his son → John Forrest, Sr., his son → Mary Forrest, his daughter → John Foster, Sr., her husband

Even the fact that Mary Forrest married a FOSTER (a variation of the name Forrester), is strange.

But worse is the fact that I can find no proof that anyone in this line existed, or if some did, that they belong in this line.

There are no primary sources or any sources at all that should be acceptable, referenced to any of them. I'll go down the line and double check each one individually, but a quick spot-check already shows me nothing.

If I find anything, I'll come back and make note of it here.

Btw, I tried earlier last evening to find anything on Robert FitzWilliam de Welles and found nothing. But maybe I didn't search the right books.

Robert FitzWilliam de Welles
No primary sources.

William de Welles
No primary sources.

William de Welles, II
No primary sources (and issues of conflicting information noted on WikiTree)

John Welles Beville
WikiTree only proves his marriage to Idonea Bellville and shows that it was their son Richard who took the name Belville. No proof or even evidence of any kind, for his ancestry.

Sir Richard de Welles Bevill
Proven son of the above-mentioned couple.

Robert de Beville
Proven son of the above, with the same source.

John de Beville
Proven with the same source.

Thomas Beville
Proven with the same source, but his wife, Mary Pannell is not proven, and WikiTree states that she was "Unknown".

Sir William Beville, (I), of Chesterton
Appears to be proven with at least one source on Wikitree.

Katherine Beville
No proof and she is not shown on WikiTree.

Robert Forrest
Proven with the source cited on WikiTree, but with Parents Unknown.

Thomas Forrest, Esq.
This is the American immigrant, but further evidence is required to prove his parents.

Henry Forrest
No primary or even secondary source. He isn't even mentioned in the About of his alleged parents.

John Forrest, Sr.
No primary or even secondary source.

Mary Foster
Nothing.

John Foster, Sr.
And this one is Mary Forrest's husband, again nothing in the way of acceptable sources.

These are Colonial families, with fancy sounding surnames, but very little basis for this line that goes back to Charlemagne.

If I could do it without problems, I would disconnect my proven ancestor, Jean Graham , from her parents, and be done with the rest of them.

I see no value in keeping that line on our tree.

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