Sorting out the tangled d'Aubigny and d'Albini families

Pam, I hate to ask, but how does this tie into Arledge.
Deanna

Sorry--no known Arledge connection! However, they are ancestors through the Boone/De Bohun family, and Charity Stover who married Benjamin Holbert (and whose 3 daughters married Arledges) is descended from them.

Erin Ishimoticha Terry Jackson (Switzer) Private User

OK now I get it.
Deanna

I'll certainly do what I can to help. I am descended from both d'albiini families. (but I can't type today).

I'd recommend using a tag on the display name to designate the primary profiles. Maybe AUB for d'Aubigny?

What about if we use a common image for all the primary profiles, a distinct image for each of the two family lines? Sometimes I and others use shield crests or maps or castle photos for these early families.

We could use an image of Arundel Castle, perhaps, though there are a number of generations in the "Arundel" line of d'Aubignys prior to them gaining the Earldom.

Earl of Arundel
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The title Earl of Arundel is the oldest extant Earldom and perhaps the oldest extant title in the Peerage of England. It is currently held by the Duke of Norfolk, and is used (along with the Earldom of Surrey) by his Heir Apparent as a courtesy title. It was created in 1138 for the Norman baron Sir William d'Aubigny. Until the mid-13th century, the Earls were also frequently known as Earl of Sussex, until this title fell into disuse. At about the same time, the Earldom fell to the originally Breton FitzAlan family, a younger branch of which went on to become the Stuart family which later ruled Scotland.

A tradition arose that the holder of Arundel Castle should automatically be Earl of Arundel, and this was formally confirmed by King Henry VI. However, this was not always consistently followed. Some of the Lords of Arundel were never addressed as Earl during their lifetime, but nevertheless are counted and numbered as earls here. Other sources may not include some of the earls listed below, and may consider the earldom to have been created more than once.

The last FitzAlan holder of the Earldom, the 19th Earl, was implicated in the Ridolfi Plot to place Mary, Queen of Scots, of the House of Stewart, on the English Throne. This led to Lord Arundel being placed under house arrest for the remainder of his life. This same Earl received, after Queen Mary's execution, the rosary and prayer book which she carried to her execution. It is amongst the Arundel relics which the Dukes of Norfolk hold today.

In his 1834 book on the Earls of Arundel, M. A. Tierney (Chaplain to the Duke of Norfolk) maintains that the first incarnation of the Earldom was with the House of Montgomery. Roger of Montgomery, 1st Earl of Shrewsbury was one of William the Conqueror's top generals, and William bestowed on him, amongst several hundred other manors, the property at Arundel, with the charge to fortify it with a castle. Montgomery is believed to have built the motte that survives to this day, and is thought to have built a wooden keep on it, overlooking the river Arun. Montgomery and two of his sons are counted by many as being the first incarnation of the Earldom, but are often not counted amongst the Earls.

On the death of the 19th Earl in 1580, the title fell to Philip Howard, eldest son of the attainted 4th Duke of Norfolk by his wife, the only daughter of the last FitzAlan Earl. Like his father, the new Earl was soon attainted for plotting against Queen Elizabeth I, and the title was only restored following the accession of King James I. The 23rd Earl was restored to the Dukedom of Norfolk in 1660, and the title has descended with that Dukedom ever since.

Earls of Arundel

1st creation

* William d'Aubigny, 1st Earl of Arundel (d. 1176)
* William d'Aubigny, 2nd Earl of Arundel (d. 1193)
* William d'Aubigny, 3rd Earl of Arundel (d. 1221)
* William d'Aubigny, 4th Earl of Arundel (d. 1224)
* Hugh d'Aubigny, 5th Earl of Arundel (d. 1243)

The method sketched out here, of creating good Master Profiles with as extensive and correct information as possible is very important when trying to detangle a difficult line like this one.

At the top of the Overview/About field there should be a detailed but EASY-TO-READ list of correct parents, souse(s) and children, to avoid confusion. Getting a Photo (of a building or a map) is an excellent method - and also often necessary to distinguish these from the rest.

Once you have a CORRECT LINE of master profiles (paste links to all of these in this thread by adding their profile ID number in between [[...]] ) the link and merge all the others into that one, correcting relationships as you go. The correct Master Profiles should have as much info as possible filled in - so that "select all" can be chosen for all data conflict - and keep it Main/Master so that the info in Overview/About won't have to be edited every time.

As long as we don't have Curators (to moderate such profiles) it is a good idea to transfer management of the most important/central of them to one person who will follow up on changes.

(Pam, the post with my name and more can be deleted - all your collaborators can see this thread unless they Unfollow.)

I've been working all weekend trying to clean up these profiles (it's very slow going!) and I'm putting an image of Arundel Castle on the profiles of all those in the Arundel line and an image of Belvoir Castle on the Belvoir line, just to keep them distinct. Separating all the incorrect marriages and breaking wrong relationships is taking a very long time. Lots of merging to do, too.

A good article by Judith Green about the complexities of the honour of Belvoir (incl Belvoir castle) which was held by the de Tosny family then inherited through Adeliza de Tosny (de Toeni/Tony) who married Roger Bigod, and who was the mother of both Maud Bigod (who married William d'Aubigny "Pincerna" or the Butler) and Cecily Bigod (who married William d'Aubigny "Brito" the Breton, and who inherited Belvoir and passed it along to her d'Aubigny descendants....

http://users.ox.ac.uk/~prosop/prosopon/issue10-2.pdf

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Copyright © Judith A. Green, 1999
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The Descent of Belvoir.1
Judith A. Green (The Queen’s University of Belfast)

The history of the important honour of Belvoir in the Norman period has been discussed by several historians, most recently by K.S.B. Keats-Rohan.2 Missing pieces of the jigsaw have been filled in and, though gaps remain, most notably about the basis of Ranulf II earl of Chester’s claim in Stephen’s reign, the picture is now much clearer. It highlights the crucial role of women in the descent of honours, bringing us to the heart of politics and patronage under the Norman kings, and the crucial question of how much manoeuvre the king had in deciding in favour of one claimant rather than another.3
In 1086 Belvoir was held by Robert de Tosny. He is known to have had three sons. One, Berengar, is recorded in Domesday Book both as his father’s under-tenant and as a tenant-in-chief.4 Berengar inherited his father’s estates in Normandy and it seems that William inherited Belvoir (the fate of the third son Geoffrey is not recorded).5 By the date of the Lindsey Survey, which was probably drawn up in summer or autumn 1115,6 some of the Lincolnshire estates held at Domesday by Robert de Tosny had passed to his son-in-law Robert de Insula, husband of Albreda.7 Keats-Rohan has demonstrated that Albreda was the sister and not the widow of Berengar de Tosny as was previously thought.8 Albreda had at least two sisters, Adeliza, the wife of Roger Bigod, and Agnes, the wife first of Ralph de Belfou and secondly of Hubert de Ryes.9
The next reference to Belvoir seems to be that in the 1130 Pipe Roll, when Adeliza accounted for an outstanding debt for her father’s land of Belvoir.10 The charters for Belvoir Priory suggest that the lords of the honour were Robert de Tosny, his son William, and William d’Aubigny the Breton.11 There survives a survey of (part of) Leicestershire which is thought to have been very close in date to the pipe roll.12 Most of Robert de Tosny’s lands, including the manor of Bottesford on which Belvoir was situated, were at the time of the survey in the hands of William d’Aubigny (the Breton), whilst other estates were held either by Robert de Insula, or were held of Belvoir, or were in unidentified hands. This evidence, if interpreted literally (i.e. if names were all recorded at the same date), suggests that Robert de Insula was still living and in possession of some Tosny estates, and others were held by William d’Aubigny the Breton by virtue of his marriage to Cecily, Adeliza Bigod’s daughter. Those held of Belvoir’ could have been held by Adeliza herself, or they were in the king’s hands. The danegeld pardon of six shillings in castello de Belveder in the 1130 Pipe Roll might well indicate the latter. This would not preclude William holding the castle as the king’s castellan.13
The third sister, Agnes, may well have been still living, as she and Adeliza Bigod witnessed the charter by which William d’Aubigny the butler, the latter’s son-in-law, gave the manor of Happisburgh to Wymondham priory on the day of his wife’s burial.14 Agnes’s share of her father’s lands seems to have been limited to a marriage portion at Aslackby where she gave land to Belvoir Priory, later confirmed by her son Henry de Ryes.15
William d’Aubigny the Breton was a man who rose to prominence under Henry I. He is thought to have been the son of Main, probably Main of Saint Aubin d’Aubigné.16 Father and
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Copyright © Judith A. Green, 1999
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son are mentioned in the Liber Vitae of Thorney Abbey.17 The early stages of William’s career are obscure. Belvoir priory was a dependency of St Albans abbey, and the tradition recorded there was that William had distinguished himself at the battle of Tinchebrai in 1106, which is by no means improbable.18 William seems to begin to witness royal charters frequently after about 1120, but it may be that he had some earlier involvement with Belvoir, because he may have been the William d’Aubigny who attested two royal notifications dealing with the honour.19 In the first of these, addressed to Ralph de Watnevilla, Ralph de Bosco Rohard, and Hugh de Hottot, the king gave the churches of Uffington and Barkestone to Robert bishop of Lincoln. The dating limits are 1107 and 1116 because of the attestations of William de Tancarville and Queen Matilda and the reference to the king’s crossing. William only began to attest for Henry after the battle of Tinchebrai and the king’s last crossing to Normandy before the queen's death was in 1116. The second, addressed to Ralph de Rehart [sic] and his associates, ordered him to put the bishop in seisin of Barkestone and Uffington. The address suggests that the honour was in the king’s hands at the time, possibly after the death of William de Tosny, and the attestation of William d’Aubigny (if this is the Breton) perhaps points to him as custodian. The advowson and parsonage of Uffington as of her own inheritance’ were subsequently given by Cecily and her husband to Belvoir Priory.20 William next occurred as the sole witness of the king’s charter for St Dogmael’s.21 In 1130 he held at farm Rutland, which may have been in the king’s hands since the death of Queen Matilda, and the lands (here unidentified) formerly held by Otuel FitzCount, who had been drowned in the White Ship, plus Ketton, and Geddington.22
Adeliza was the mother of Hugh Bigod, for Hugh is known to have inherited the Yorkshire lands of Berengar de Tosny, which must have come to him through his mother’s family.23 She may have been the mother of Roger Bigod’s other children, as Keats-Rohan has also suggested, and if she was, the singling out of Cecily as her heiress was noteworthy.24 How and when did this happen? We have seen that some of the Belvoir lands had passed to her sister and her sister’s husband by 1115, and it would appear from the Leicestershire Survey that Robert de Insula was still living after the marriage of Cecily and William. Hugh Bigod inherited his father’s estates, Robert de Tosny’s Norman estates, and the English estates of his uncle, Berengar, but he was not to inherit Belvoir, where the claim of his sister was preferred. We cannot be certain of the exact timing and order of events, but it looks as though Adeliza was substituted as the principal heiress of Belvoir, perhaps with the intention of making her daughter Cecily, and Cecily’s husband, the next heirs. Yet in the Leicestershire Survey Robert de Insula held land at Muston and Stathern which in 1086 had been held by Robert de Tosny. Robert de Insula also held land at Eaton (probably omitted from Domesday Book) and Eastwell (held in 1086 by Aschill the king’s serjeant) which were subsequently held by Albreda’s successors, the count of Aumale and Hugh Bigod.25
How did Hugh Bigod feel about the fact that his claim to Belvoir had been sidelined? If it was the norm for a mother’s land to be used to endow a daughter in this way, then arguably Hugh had little ground for complaint. Yet, as Andrew Wareham has pointed out, Hugh’s paternal estates had already been diminished to provide a generous marriage portion for Matilda, wife of William d’Aubigny the butler, and the shrievalties of Norfolk and Suffolk, which had been held by Roger Bigod, had passed out of the family’s control by the middle years of Henry I’s reign.26
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When he succeeded his brother William, Hugh had reason to hope both that his losses would be made good and for further advancement, but as Henry I died and was succeeded by Stephen, neither was forthcoming. Yet Stephen had good reason to be grateful to Hugh who had sworn that on his deathbed Henry I had nominated Stephen as his heir.27 In 1140 Hugh is recorded as having rebelled twice.28 Stephen may have granted him the title of earl, though it is not until the following year, when Hugh was found at the Empress’s court, that he attested with this rank.29
William d’Aubigny the Breton was and remained a loyal supporter of king Stephen, who presumably confirmed him in succession of Belvoir when his mother-in-law finally died. It used to be thought that the castle of Galclint which Count Alan seized in 1140 and which was taken from him by Earl Ranulf could have been Belvoir, but recently Paul Dalton has argued persuasively that Galclint was a castle of William count of Aumale in Yorkshire.30 Nevertheless at some point Ranulf of Chester began to lay claim to Belvoir, a castle of strategic importance close to the earl’s territorial interests. A grant of the castle, the honour, and all the land of William d’Aubigny was included in Stephen’s charter for Ranulf. The timing of the charter is hard to establish, but there are reasons for dating it to 1140 rather than 1146.31 No hereditary basis for Ranulf’s claim to Belvoir has been clearly established, and from the terminology used in the charter it may well have been the case that Ranulf was asserting personal overlordship over William d’Aubigny the Breton. The earl also asserted a claim to act as advocate and defender of Pipewell abbey, four miles north of Rockingham, and twenty-four miles south of Belvoir, founded in part on land belonging to Belvoir.32 His position was strengthened by the appearance of a key member of his following, Robert Basset, at Redmile near Belvoir. Robert gave the church of Redmile for the foundation of a priory there, which Earl Ranulf confirmed.33
As Edmund King has shown the earl may never have ousted William d’Aubigny the Breton, an impression strengthened by the terminology used in the charter Henry FitzEmpress issued in the Ranulf’s favour in 1153, when Henry promised to do Ranulf right concerning Belvoir as soon as he could as if it were of his inheritance’.34 Belvoir thereafter descended to the son of William and Cecily.
On at least two occasions in the early twelfth century Belvoir passed via women. On the first occasion Albreda succeeded to the lands of her brother Berengar, and, for a time at least, to William de Tosny’s land. The former passed to her nephew Hugh Bigod, and the second occasion the latter ultimately passed to her niece Cecily. A third sister, Agnes, had only a restricted inheritance from her father. Although at first sight the descent of Belvoir and the marriage or marriages of Roger Bigod might be dismissed as technicalities, the issues they raise provide important illustrations of the circumstances in which women inherited, and of the amount of land assigned to daughters in the Norman period.

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Copyright © Judith A. Green, 1999
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NOTES
1 The original stimulus for this article was K.S.B. Keats-Rohan, Belvoir: the heirs of Robert and Berengar de Tosny’, Prosopon, 9 (July 1998), pp. [1-2]. She has been particularly helpful in supplying references and comments on earlier drafts; thanks also to Andrew Wareham for his comments on an earlier draft.
2 J. H. Round, who calendared the documents at Belvoir castle for the Historical Manuscripts Commission, supplied a pedigree of the family: see The Manuscripts of His Grace the Duke of Rutland, 4 vols (1888-1905), IV, pp. 106-7. Round pointed out that the Leicestershire Survey showed William d’Aubigny the Breton in possession of Belvoir land before the death of Adeliza Bigod.
3 This ground was also covered in J. A. Green, Aristocratic women in early twelfth century England’, in Anglo-Norman Political Culture And the Twelfth Century Renaissance, ed. C. Warren Hollister (Woodbridge, 1997), pp. 70-1; see also, my The Aristocracy of Norman England (Cambridge, 1997), ch. 11.
4 Berengar was a tenant-in-chief in Oxfordshire, Nottinghamshire, Yorkshire and Lincolnshire, and an under-tenant in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire: DB, I, 159, 291b, 314-314b, 352-353b.
5 Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum, III, 289.
6 For a revised date of the Lindsey Survey, see T. Foulds, The Lindsey Survey and an unknown precept of king Henry I’, Historical Research, 59 (1986), pp. 212-5.
7 Lindsey Survey, 3/8, 4/3, 6/5, 7/5, 10/1.
8 Keats-Rohan, ‘Belvoir’.
9 Adeliza Bigod was addressed in writs of Henry I and Stephen concerning tithes at Bradley, Suffolk: Regesta Regum Anglo-Normannorum, II, nos 1485, 1495; III, no. 82. Agnes confirmed land and tithes at Aslackby de matrimonio suo: Mon.Ang., III, 289; see Keats-Rohan, ‘Belvoir’.
10 PR 31 Henry I, p. 114.
11 See the charter of Henry I and the confirmation of Pope Adrian IV: HMC Rutland, IV, pp. 109-10. Cf. the charter of Cecily de Belveir’ daughter of Roger Bigod, confirming an advowson and parsonage to Belvoir Priory for the souls of King Henry I, Robert de Tosny her grandfather, William d’Aubigny her husband and William her son: ibid., p. 144.
12 The Leicestershire Survey, ed. C.F. Slade, Univ. of Leicester Dept. of English Local History, Occasional Papers, 7 (1956), p. 12.
13 PR 31 Henry I, p. 121.
14 Mon.Ang., III, 330. This grant was confirmed by Henry I: RRAN, II, no. 1481.
15 Mon.Ang., III, 290.
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16 Round pointed out that one of William’s tenants came from Chauvigné near Saint Aubin d’Aubigné, HMC Rutland, IV, p. 107.
17 C. Clark, British Library Additional MS. 40,0000 ff. 1v-12r’, Anglo-Norman Studies, 7 (1984), p. 55.
18 Matthew Paris, Chronica Majora, ed. H.R. Luard, 7 vols, RS (London 1872-83), II, p. 132.
19 RRAN, II, nos 1152-3.
20 HMC Rutland, IV, p. 144.
21 RRAN, II, no. 1223.
22 PR 31 Henry I, pp. 133-4. The lands of Otuel FitzCount included the manor of Sawbridgeworth, the church of which was granted to Westminster abbey: see Westminster Abbey Charters 1066-c. 1214, ed. E. Mason, London Record Society, 25 (1988), no. 469.
23 Early Yorkshire Charters, I, pp. 466, 507-8.
24 Keats-Rohan, ‘Belvoir’; cf. Complete Peerage, IX, 578. Roger Bigod’s charter for Rochester cathedral priory referred to his wife Adeliza and his sons and daughters. The charter was witnessed by William Bigod our son’, Humfrey Bigod, and Gunnora and Matilda our daughters’. There was no mention here of Hugh and Cecily, nor of another unnamed child, parent of Roger FitzRichard, lord of Warkworth: C.T. Clay, The ancestry of the early Lords of Warkworth’, Archaeologia Aeliana, 4th ser., 32 (1954), 68. Hugh and Cecily were clearly the children of Adeliza de Tosny as each inherited Tosny estates, but was the latter a second identically named wife? Hugh described Gunnora as his sister in a charter for Norwich cathedral priory, Complete Peerage, IX, 578. Matilda could have had a claim on the honour of Belvoir, because her son William II d’Aubigny the butler for a short time held the title earl of Lincoln, a county where he otherwise had no interests, R.H.C. Davis, King Stephen, 3rd edn (London, 1990), p. 134. Keats-Rohan argued that Hugh was provided for from the Bigod lands which he inherited after the death of his brother William in the White Ship, plus, at some stage, the Tosny lands of his uncle Berengar, and that Gunnora and Matilda had been provided for on marriage so that the honour of Belvoir could be used to endow Cecily, the youngest daughter. In Aristocratic women’ (pp. 70-1), I accepted the likelihood that Roger married twice, basically because this seemed to make better sense of the fact that Hugh and Cecily but not their siblings inherited Tosny lands: see also Green, Aristocracy, pp. 374-5. After discussion with Keats-Rohan, I can see that the charter evidence is inconclusive, and if anything the presumption must be slightly in favour of one wife, not two, in which case the descent of Belvoir to Cecily is more striking.
25 Leicestershire Survey, p. 51; HMC Rutland, IV, 3-7; for the contested succession to Hugh Bigod, see J.C. Holt, Politics and property in early medieval England’, which originally appeared in Past and Present and has since been been reprinted, most recently in Colonial England 1066-1215 (London, 1997), pp. 151-2.
26 A. Wareham, The motives and politics of the Bigod family, c. 1066-1177’, Anglo-Norman Studies, 17 (1994), pp. 223-42.
27 Henry of Huntingdon, Historia Anglorum, ed. D. Greenway (Oxford, 1996), pp. 728-30 and n.; Histora Pontificalis, ed. M.M. Chibnall, corrected edn (Oxford, 1986), p. 84.
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28 ‘Annals of Waverley’, in Annales Monastici, ed. H.R. Luard, 5 vols, RS (London, 1864-9), II, 228.
29 Wareham, ‘Motives’, p. 234, reviews the evidence; also Henry of Huntingdon, Historia Anglorum, ed. Greenway, p. 730n.
30 John of Hexham, Symeon of Durham, Opera Omnia, ed. T. Arnold, 2 vols, RS 2 vols (London, 1882-5), II, 306, 308-9; P. Dalton, Conquest Anarchy and Lordship. Yorkshire 1066-1154 (Cambridge, 1994), pp. 164-5.
31 E. King, The foundation of Pipewell abbey, Northamptonshire’, Haskins Society Journal, 2 (1990), 167-77 (p. 171n).
32 Ibid.
33 HMC Rutland, IV, 146; King, Foundation’, p. 176. Robert Basset witnessed nine times for Ranulf II: Green, Aristocracy, p. 213.
34 RRAN, III, no. 180.

Do you know more about Nigel/Nele d'Aubigny b abt 1070, of Cainhoe, Bedfordshire, England, d bef 1107 and this branch of the family?

We own a manior in StMartin D"Aubigny in Manche.The locals tell us it was
built in 1086 by the D'Aubigny family ,along with the local church and Lessay
Abbey. Finding it hard to prove. Any help would be appreciated. We are guessing
William or Roger.

Graham,
I have some threads of documentation (all taken from the internet, not originally sourced) regarding the D'Aubigny family. Some of the family came England in/around 1066, setting up castles at Arundel and Caenhoe, Beds.

http://www.geneajourney.com/aubigny2.html

I'm bumping this up since there are several of us curators working on these families. Since it is SO tangled, we have locked many of the profiles to merging by anyone but curators until we can get it cleaned up. If you are a curator working on this, please let me know so we can coordinate.

Hi Pam,
I am Head Custodian of Castle Rising, Norfolk, England and have researched the two D'Albini lines extensively.
The name D’Albini which applies to various pre-Conquest family lines simply derives from de (of) Aubigny, a town in north-west of Normandy. The Belvoir line which also springs from the same region possesses a slightly different source for their name which is Aubigné which is located in Brittany. However, the original focus for both families is a region of Normandy known as the Cotentin which has held Coutances as its capital since Roman times and later became a cathedral city.
I can supply a chart and written description

I've just begun a d'Aubigny and de Albini family project which is still in its *very* formative stages. I invite anyone interested in this family to join and follow it. Norman is going to be a Project Collaborator, which will be terrific.

I'm a d'Aubigne from the french line of d'Aubign'e's including Theodore Agrippa descending from Geoffrey b 1160 - I believe its the Geoffrey from Main out of St-Aubin....it's confusing with two Williams at that time who both had sons named Geoffrey, at least that is what I have discovered. Our family name was changed after Cornelius II (USA), from his sons John, George, Benjamin. We're from the Benjamin line. French refugees, three brothers, John, Cornelius, Robert, moved to America right about 1690's when the Revocation occured. They went through Wales and established a home at Elmington. A half sister of their grandfather Constant, Francoise d'Aubign'e, struggled at one time to clearly trace her heritage. The family is in abundance in America. No doubt, it is confusing and I personally would love to get a clear record of around 1160. I do know that Geoffrey was a Lord of St. Aubin d'Aubign'e, like Main d'Aubign'e.

its not from Main but from William out of St. Martin. Geni and a few other sites helpled out clearing that up.

Right now Roger the son is born 945 and the mother's birth is 985 and the father's birth is 1016. Something is not right.
William (Guillaume) "Of The Isles" d' Aubigny is my 27th ggf

@I think I now have conclusive proof that William D'Albini (Strong hand) built Castle Rising as a religious house. Sorry I've been so long away from the forum.

I am a descendant of the Abneys who came from the village of Abney in Derbyshire and from Willesley in Leicestershire. According to family tradition the surname Abney came from Albini. I believe that this connection comes from the writings of John Pym Yeatman. We are said to descend from William d'Albini Brito through his son Robert. I have been researching this line trying to prove or disprove the Albini connection. I have proved the Abneys back to Robert d'Abbeneye born around 1200. According to tradition, he was the son of William d'Albini, William being the son of Robert d'Albini son of Williiam Brito and Cecily. My line can be seen on my sebsite here: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~opus/p3890.htm

In your research have you found any connection between the Aubigny/Albini family and the Abney family? I would also be interested in any connection between either the Arundel or Belvoir lines and Derbyshire. Any help or guidance will be appreciated,

Hello all - I relate back into what I think the is the Albini line. Maud Albin born about 1153 married Gilbert of Starthearn. The confusion is which William and which line does she belong to? It is about a 50/50 split on who people have as her father. I am leaning toward William Le Breton. Some people have her father as William the 1st lord of Arundel which does not compute with the information I have see so far. Any thoughts on this would be great

Hello everyone and thank you, I think I have managed to untangle some of the d'Aubigny lines I have.

I am related to both lines and to make them clear to me I have included in brackets beside their names (of the Belvoir line) or (of the Arundel line)

At least I know what I'm talking about and maybe they will keep them all in their proper places.

Hello Kevin Brown... I have Maud/Matilda 1153 and after carefully follow all Pam's post, I have her father as William d'Aubigny (of the Belvoir line) 1113 to 1168.

Maud's mother was Maud de Clare b.1124 d.?

Maud/Matilda married Gilbert Strathearn b.1150 d. 1223

their child was

Earl Robert de Strathearn b. 1176 d.1244

I hope this helps :)

Carolyn, which line did Sir Thomas Abney, Lord Mayor of London, belong?

Robert, from my research it appears that the answer is neither. I believe that the name originated from the village of Abney in Derbyshire. I have done a lot of research trying to find an Albini connection, but without luck. Abney family tradition suggests that we connect to the Brittany Aubignie line, i.e. William Albini "Brito" of Belvoir Castle and that the name later was Anglicized into Abney. I have found no evidence of that. The earliest Abney I have found is Robert D'Abbeneye born circa 1220 in Derbyshire, England. He was the first of the Abneys of Willesley.

Hi. My name is Jennifer Arndell. For the last few years I have been doing some research on my family history. From most websites I have used, which happen to all be the same. I am a direct decent from Viscount Maingot D'Aubany.

Arndell Family History.
Patrick Arndell (1958, Kentuck) Son of Charles Arndell
Charles Arndell, son of Amos Arndell
Amos Arndell(abt:1910 In, Mulenburg, Ky) son of Nathan Arndell and Bertha Hughes
Nathan Ancell Arndell(abt:1880 in Mulenburg, in Ky) son of James Cader Arndell and Kittury Arndell
James Cader Arndell(abt:1835 in Mulenburg, Ky) son of Nathan Arndell and Polly McLaughlin
Nathan Arndell(abt:1806 in Spartanurg, South Carolina, died in Butler County Ky.) son of Cader Arendell
Cader Arendell(abt:1780 in Spartanburg, South Carolina) son of John Arendell and Grace Horton
John Arendell(abt:1750 in Old Gransville, North Carolina) son of Benjamin Arendell and Rebecaa Sarratt
Benjamin Arendell(abt:1722, in Granville Caswell, Orange, North Carolina) son of Richard Arendell and Ellinor Reddick
Richard Arendell(abt:1690, in Ireland, moving to North Carolina) son of Richard Arendell and Anne
Richard Arendell(abt:1656, in England, moved to Ireland) son of Richard Arendell(Arnold) and Elizabeth Resse
Richard Arendell(abt:1620, in England) son of Matthew Arendell and Ann Hall
Matthew Arendell(abt:1608, in England) son of Thomas Arendell and Anne Phillipson
Thomas Arendell(abt:1560, In Wardour Castle (Pariash) Wiltshire, England) son of Matthew Arendell and Margaret Willoughby
Matthew Arendell(abt:1530, in Wardour Castle Wiltshire, England,) son of Thomas Arundel
Thomas Arundel(abt:1506, in Tower London, London, Middlesex, England) son of John Arundel and Eleanor Grey
John Arundel(abt:1485, in Lanhene (Pariash), Cornwall England) son of Thomas Arundel and Catherine Dynham
Thomas Arundel(abt:1451, in Lanhene (pariash), Cornwall England - sister Anne Arundel) son of John Arundel Catherine Chidioc
John Arundel(abt:1421, in Lanhene, Cornwall England) son of John Arundel and Margaret Burghersh
John Arundel(abt:1392, in Bideford, Devonshire England) son of John Arundell and Annora Lambourne
John Arundell(abt:1372, in Lanhene, Cornwall England) son of John Arundell and Joan Luscote
John Arundell(abt:1336, in Treleigh, Cornwall England) son of John Arundell and Elizabeth Carminow
John Arundell(abt:1310, in Lanhene, Cornwall England) son of John Arundel and Isabella De La Bere
John Arundel(abt:1294, in Lanhene, Cornwall England) son of John Arundel and Joan Le Soor
John Arunde (in Lanhene, Cornwall England)l son of Reinfred De Arundel and Alice De La Hurne
Reinfred De Arundel born about 1245, in Treloy , Cornwall, England. Son of Sir Ralph De Arundell.
Ralph De Arundell, born about 1208, in Lanhene, Cornwall, England. Son of Renfred De Arundell, Lord of Treloy.
Renfred De Arundell, born about 1180, in Treloy, Cornwall, England. Son of William III d'Aubigny, Earl of Aubigny.
William III d'Aubigny, born about 1140, in Buckenham, Norfolk England. Son of Willam II d'Aubigny, Earl of Arundel.
William II d'Aubigny, born about 1102, in Buckenham, Norfolk, England. Son of William I d'Aubigny.
William I d'Aubigny, born about 1075, in Aubigny, Calvados, France. Son of Roger d'Aubigny.
Roger d'Aubigny, born about 1040, in Aubigny, Calvados, Normandine, France. Son of William d'Aubigny.
William d'Aubigny, born about 1000, in St. Martin d'Aubigny, Nord, France. Son of Niel Albini Jr.
Niel Albini Jr, born about 970, in St. Martin d'Aubigny, Nord, France. Son of Viscount Cadeldon II d'Aubany. Mother was a Princess. Literally.
Viscount Cadeldon II d'Aubany, born about 935, in St. Martin d'Aubigny. Son of Visocunt Cadelon I d'Aubany.
Viscount Cadelon I d'Aubany, born about 900, in Aubany, Nord, France. Son Viscount Maingont d'Aubany.
Viscount Maingont d'Aubany, born 875, in Aubany, Nord, France.

Dear Jennifer,

You present a very interesting lineage! I've gone through and tried to match yours up with what we have on Geni. This is what I've found.

No Geni match on these first few generations, so you could add them in and then merge with the tree where there is a match:

Patrick Arndell (1958, Kentuck) Son of Charles Arndell
Charles Arndell, son of Amos Arndell

Amos Arndell(abt:1910 In, Mulenburg, Ky) son of Nathan Arndell and Bertha Hughes

Nathan Ancell Arndell(abt:1880 in Mulenburg, in Ky) son of James Cader Arndell and Kittury Arndell

James Cader Arndell(abt:1835 in Mulenburg, Ky) son of Nathan Arndell and Polly McLaughlin

Nathan Arndell(abt:1806 in Spartanurg, South Carolina, died in Butler County Ky.) son of Cader Arendell . No Geni match.

Here is where Geni picks up this line:

Cader Arendell(abt:1780 in Spartanburg, South Carolina) son of John Arendell and Grace Horton. Geni match: Cader Arendell but no children are listed for him.

John Arendell(abt:1750 in Old Gransville, North Carolina) son of Benjamin Arendell and Rebecaa Sarratt . Geni match: John Arnold Arendell, I

Benjamin Arendell(abt:1722, in Granville Caswell, Orange, North Carolina) son of Richard Arendell and Ellinor Reddick . Geni match: Benjamin Arendell

Richard Arendell(abt:1690, in Ireland, moving to North Carolina) son of Richard Arendell and Anne. Here is a Geni match, though not a Master Profile: Richard Arendell

Richard Arendell(abt:1656, in England, moved to Ireland) son of Richard Arendell(Arnold) and Elizabeth Resse I find a Geni match here: Richard Arendell

Richard Arendell(abt:1620, in England) son of Matthew Arendell and Ann Hall. I find a dead-end Geni match here: Richard Arendell

Here is where I think there is a glitch, since it appears that this Matthew died young before having children. Strangely, even by your chart, he would have to have been 12 years old to have been the father of Richard b 1620.

Matthew Arendell(abt:1608, in England) son of Thomas Arendell and Anne Phillipson Sir Thomas Arundel, 1st Baron of Wardour

Thomas Arendell(abt:1560, In Wardour Castle (Pariash) Wiltshire, England) son of Matthew Arendell and Margaret Willoughby. Sir Thomas Arundel, 1st Baron of Wardour

Matthew Arendell(abt:1530, in Wardour Castle Wiltshire, England,) son of Thomas Arundel . Sir Matthew Arundell, MP

Thomas Arundel(abt:1506, in Tower London, London, Middlesex, England) son of John Arundel and Eleanor Grey. Sir Thomas Arundell, MP

John Arundel(abt:1485, in Lanhene (Pariash), Cornwall England) son of Thomas Arundel and Catherine Dynham . Sir John Arundell, KB

Thomas Arundel(abt:1451, in Lanhene (pariash), Cornwall England - sister Anne Arundel) son of John Arundel Catherine Chidioc. Sir Thomas Arundel, KB

John Arundel(abt:1421, in Lanhene, Cornwall England) son of John Arundel and Margaret Burghersh .Sir John Arundell, VII, Kt.

John Arundel(abt:1392, in Bideford, Devonshire England) son of John Arundell and Annora Lambourne . Vice-Admiral Sir John Arundell, V

John Arundell(abt:1372, in Lanhene, Cornwall England) son of John Arundell and Joan Luscote . John Arundell, IV of Treleye

John Arundell(abt:1336, in Treleigh, Cornwall England) son of John Arundell and Elizabeth Carminow . Sir John de Arundell, of Lanherne

John Arundell(abt:1310, in Lanhene, Cornwall England) son of John Arundel and Isabella De La Bere . John Arundell, II, Lord of Lanherne

John Arundel(abt:1294, in Lanhene, Cornwall England) son of John Arundel and Joan Le Soor . John de Arundel I, Lord of Trelory

John Arunde (in Lanhene, Cornwall England)l son of Reinfred De Arundel and Alice De La Hurne

Reinfred De Arundel born about 1245, in Treloy , Cornwall, England. Son of Sir Ralph De Arundell. Renfred de Arundel

Ralph De Arundell, born about 1208, in Lanhene, Cornwall, England. Son of Renfred De Arundell, Lord of Treloy. Sir Ralph de Arundell, Lord of Trelory and Saint Colomb

Renfred De Arundell, Sir Renfred de Arundell born about 1180, in Treloy, Cornwall, England. [you have him as the Son of William III d'Aubigny, Earl of Aubigny, but that differs from the Geni version]. I'm calling in @Maria Edmonds-Zeliker here since she is the curator of this profile.

Then I have a gap and a disconnect here. We don't have the Arundell family (Renfred's ancestors) connected to the d'Aubigny family. We would need some evidence--do you have sources to share? Currently, Geni has Renfred's ancestors listed (not as well-researched master profiles, however) as: Sir Renfrey de Arundell → Humphrey de Arundell, his father → Richard de Arundell, his father → Gilbert de Arundell, his father → Roger de Arundell, his father

William III d'Aubigny, William d'Aubigny 2nd Earl of Arundel born about 1140, in Buckenham, Norfolk England. Son of Willam II d'Aubigny, Earl of Arundel.

William II d'Aubigny, William "Stronghand" d'Aubigny, 1st Earl of Arundel born about 1102, in Buckenham, Norfolk, England. Son of William I d'Aubigny.

William I d'Aubigny, William "Pincerna" d'Aubigny born about 1075, in Aubigny, Calvados, France. Son of Roger d'Aubigny.

Roger d'Aubigny, Roger "Pincerna" d'Aubigny born about 1040, in Aubigny, Calvados, Normandine, France. Son of William d'Aubigny.

William d'Aubigny, Guillaume d'Aubigny, seigneur de Saint-Martin-d'Aubigny born about 1000, in St. Martin d'Aubigny, Nord, France. Son of Niel Albini Jr.

Niel Albini Jr, Niel II (III) de Saint-Sauveur, vicomte de Cotentin born about 970, in St. Martin d'Aubigny, Nord, France. Son of Viscount Cadeldon II d'Aubany. Mother was a Princess. Literally.

This is where our Geni version diverges. If you can send me documentation for your earlier generations, I'd like to see it. What I/we have is that Niel de Saint-Saveur was the son of Neil (I) II, viscount de Saint-Sauveur, who in turn was the son of Roger de Saint-Sauveur, vicomte du Cotentin Roger de Saint-Sauveur, vicomte du Cotentin and (here's your Princess!) Daughter of Richard Princess Of Normandy Adele Esproita De St Sauveur. We have the next highest generation as "Nigel" Neil I, vicomte de Saint-Sauveur and Sprota (Adela) de Senlis. Next is Richard I de Saint-Sauveur (de St. Sauveur), Vicomte du Cotentin and Niece de Normandie, and then Richard's parents as Malahulc / Haldrick Eysteinsson (Jarl of Norway) Malahulc and Maud de Boulogne et Ternois

Your version:

Viscount Cadeldon II d'Aubany, born about 935, in St. Martin d'Aubigny. Son of Visocunt Cadelon I d'Aubany.
Viscount Cadelon I d'Aubany, born about 900, in Aubany, Nord, France. Son Viscount Maingont d'Aubany.
Viscount Maingont d'Aubany, born 875, in Aubany, Nord, France.

To Ian & Stephen, where/when did the DABNEY & ABNEY surnames separate?