Alice Croker

Alice Dormer

• Birth: about 1478 in Thame, Oxfordshire, England
• Death: unknown
• Father: Geoffrey Dormer (died 1503, son of Geffery Dormer and Judith Baldington)
• Mother: Alice Collingridge (died 1513, daughter of William Collingridge, or of Bartholomew Collingridge, his father)
• Spouse: Thomas Croker or Crocker (b. abt 1460, died unknown) - married before 1500. (Parents unknown)

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Children:

1. John Croker (also known as Crocker) (b. Abt 1500 - d. 6 March 1569). Married Isabelle Skinner, daughter of Robert Skinner.

Biography

"ALICE DORMER, daughter by her father’s 2nd marriage. She married THOMAS CROCKER (or CROKER), of Faringdon, Berkshire. They had one son, John, Esq. Thomas was presumably closely related to Richard Crocker, of Faringdon, Berkshire, Merchant of the Staple of Calais, who left a will dated 8 March 1519, proved 14 March 1519, naming his wife, Ellen, but no children (P.C.C. 27 Ayloffe).

Notes

• Birth date is a rough estimate based on her son’s death date.

Origins

http://www.oxford-shakespeare.com/Probate/PROB_11-15_ff_83-4.pdf

By his first wife, Margery, whose surname is unknown, Geoffrey Dormer the elder is said to have had five sons, including the testator and another son named Thomas, and eight daughters. Geoffrey Dormer the elder married secondly Alice Collingridge, (d.1513) by whom he is said to have had seven sons, including Geoffrey, Sir Michael Dormer (d. 20 September 1545), Lord Mayor of London in 1541, Peter (d.1555) and Edward (d.1539), and five daughters including Alice Dormer, who married Thomas Crocker or Croker of Faringdon, Berkshire (see Turner, William Henry, ed., The Visitations of the County of Oxford, Vol. V, (London: Harleian Society 1871), p. 185, available online); Margaret Dormer, who married Richard Cowley; and Elizabeth Dormer, who married a husband surnamed Towley. See Richardson, Douglas, Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd ed., Vol. II, (Salt Lake City, 2011), pp. 420-1. For the memorial brass of Geoffrey Dormer the elder, his two wives, and their children at Thame, see Beaumont, Edward T., Ancient Memorial Brasses, (London: Oxford University Press, 1913), p. 51, available online at: < Archive.Org >

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Comments

Many sites indicate that this person is the daughter of William Dormer. I cannot agree with that. His will can be seen online, and he had a daughter Agnes who married William Baldwin, but no other daughter who could be this person Alice (Dormer) Crocker.

His will is here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=8-0KAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA474&lpg=PA474&dq...

Some other sites indicate that this person was Geoffrey Dormer's daughter, but I could not make the dates fit to justify that position.

This is all on the Hunt side.

What is truly interesting is that in another error, some sites link that same William Dormer family into the Veerhoff line! This is done by wrongly asserting that Sir John Baldwin (not William) was the husband of Agnes the daughter of William Dormer, and further wrongly asserting that Sir John was in the Baldwin line that reaches us through the Veerhoffs.

However, my investigation indicates that it is a Richard Baldwin, not John, who belongs in the line at that place, and that is how I have set it.

Of course more research is welcome! But it is interesting that if all of these very commonly believed errors were true, then my mother and father Robert (Miller) Hunt and Abby Veerhoff Hunt would be fifteenth cousins through William Dormer.

I do not know who the parents of Alice Dormer Crocker are, but I am leaving the erroneous Dormer line in just in case, so that I will not have to type it back in if it turns out to be right.

This lady had about the same problem I did:

"I've been trying to straighten out the ancestry of Alice DORMER, born anywhere from 1459-1478, apparently in Thame, Oxfordshire. She married Thomas CROKER of Hook Norton, Oxfordshire, and their child was John CROKER (sometimes called CROCKER).

Some sources list Alice's father as Geoffrey DORMER, b. ABT 1417 in West Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, and her mother as Ursula (or Alice or Ethyld) COLLINGRIDGE, b. ABT 1420 in Wycombe, Buckinghamshire. But other sources list Alice DORMER's father as William DORMER, b. ABT 1438 in Wycombe and her mother as Jane Agnes LAUNCELYN, b. ABT 1460 at Launcelynbury, "Hantshire," which I'm assuming is a typo for "Hampshire," whose abbreviation is "Hants." According to several of these same sources (these are various websites on the Internet, so I can't say how accurate any of them may be), this William DORMER's parents are the Geoffrey DORMER and Ursula (or Alice or Ethyld) COLLINGRIDGE referred to previously.

But things got even stickier as I continued to compare these various trees. One source wasn't sure how Alice DORMER was connected to Geoffrey, if at all. There was also confusion further along the line, involving the ancestors of Geoffrey DORMER as well as of Ursula COLLINGRIDGE.

For example, are Bartholomew COLLINGRIDGE, b. 1383 in West Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, and Alice FITZALAN, b. 1385, the parents of Ursula COLLINGRIDGE? And what about the parents of Alice FITZALAN? There is real confusion here, as some sources list her parents as Ranulph FITZALAN, b. 1359 in West Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, and Juliana UNKNOWN, b. 1361 in Wycombe, as her parents; yet others list Alice's father as Willliam FITZALAN, son of John FITZALAN DE ARUNDEL and Eleanor DE MALTRAVERS. Ranulph FITZALAN's parents are listed in turn as this William FITZALAN, so it appears that these trees are either skipping one generation or adding one in by mistake. (Or for all I know, they're making the whole durn thing up just to confuse us!)

If you've read this far, I hope your head isn't spinning! <g> I'm very puzzled, so if anyone could straighten out this mess of names, dates, and places, I'd be very happy and grateful.

So--is there anyone there who knows the ancestry of Alice DORMER? If you also have that of her husband, Thomas CROKER, I'd love to have that, too. "

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Magna Carta ancestry

Magna Carta Project at Wikitree < link >

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Dormer-27

Alice Croker appears in Magna Carta Ancestry in a Richardson-documented trail from < Gateway Ancestor > Edward Howell, Gent. to < Magna Carta Surety Baron > Robert de Vere (vol. II, pages 418-426 HOWELL). This profile also appers in a trail between Edward Howell and surety Saher de Quincy. Both trails were badged by the Magna Carta Project in 2015 and are in need of re-review as of 27 April 2023. The trails are outlined in the < Magna Carta Trails > section of Margaret Hawten's profile (Margaret Howell on Geni)

References

1. http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/DORMER.htm
2. Reference: [object Object]] - [https://www.geni.com/projects/SmartCopy/18783 SmartCopy: Aug 6 2019, 23:02:09 UTC
3. Reference: [object Object]] - [https://www.geni.com/projects/SmartCopy/18783 SmartCopy: Aug 6 2019, 23:08:16 UTC
4. Reference: [object Object]] - [https://www.geni.com/projects/SmartCopy/18783 SmartCopy: Aug 6 2019, 23:10:12 UTC
5. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Dormer-27 cites
   1. Douglas Richardson, "Ancestry of Edward Howell, of Southampton, Long Island", posted at the gen-medieval forum 2/26/2009.
   2. Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd Edition, Vol. II, p. 420-423.
   3. Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. III, p. 342-343.
   4. Turner, William, Henry, ed., The Visitations of the County of Oxford, Vol 5. (London: Harleian Society, 1871), p. 185 < archive,org >
6. “Ancestry of Edward Howell, of Southampton, Long Island (died 1655).” Douglas Richardson et al, 26 February 2009. < GoogleGroups >
7. Turner, William Henry, ed., The Visitations of the County of Oxford, Vol. V, (London: Harleian Society 1871), p. 185. “Crocker, of Hooknorton.” < archive.org >
8. “Will of William Dormer of West Wycombe, Buckinghamshire (1506).” < PDF >